|
Post by GLSHOOTER on Apr 8, 2013 13:29:18 GMT -8
cb4017Sounds like you have some good luck with your barrel ... I have not. Can you tell me what you were loading to get the less than 1 MOA. I have tried everything from 55gr Varmageddon, 70gr Nosler, 75gr Hornady, 80gr nosler, 87 vmax and about the best is a 3" group with the 55gr. Varmas ... the heavier the bullet the larger the group. I would think I could get good accuracy at least up to the 80gr. Are you crimpinv? What powders. What COL are you using? All important stuff to get themto shoot. I bet we can help work this one out. Grev
|
|
|
Post by jwiatrek on Apr 9, 2013 6:50:40 GMT -8
All good questions Greg...
Here are some details of the loads I have tested, all loads are chronographed and had very load velocity spread and standard deviation so they were consistent hand-loads. SD ranged from low of about 8 to the highest about 27 with velocity.
A few of the heavier loads have very light flattening on the primers so no extreme pressure signs.
75gr HP Hornady 22gr H335, 23gr H335 and 24gr H335 no crimp OAL: 2.265
These all shot about 3 inch groups, very little difference in the group size
55gr Nosler Varmageddon 24gr H322, 25gr H322 and 26gr H322 1/4 turn crimp using custom Lee FCD OAL: 2.260
These were about 2 1/2 inch group with on that was closer to 3 inch group
70gr Nosler ballistic tip 23gr H322, 24gr H322 and 25gr H322 no crimp OAL: 2.265
Again all about 3 inch groups ...
80gr Nosler ballistic tip 23gr H322, 24gr H322 and 25gr H322 no crimp OAL: 2.270
Again all about 5 inch groups ...
I have some 87 grain loads that were the worst
87gr VMAX 22gr H335, 23gr H335 and 24gr H335 no crimp OAL: 2.265
These ranged from 8" group for the lightest load to 5" for heaviest load
This past Friday when I was shooting it was about 70 F, no wind, I was using a very heavy, stable shooting bench with sand bags and Caldwell rest. 100yard range
Just to make sure it was not me... I shot about 5 shot groups using the 5.56 AR I built with 20 inch barrel an shot a bunch of 1.5 inch group or less using a bog stock POS DPMS 5.56 AR that is my pick-up gun.
Any insight you can provide would be helpful.
|
|
|
Post by GLSHOOTER on Apr 9, 2013 12:37:25 GMT -8
Load levels are good as are the COL. The SD sounds good so you are certainly doing that right. I don't crimp at all on mine. I avoid H335 in most of what I shoot as the temps are crazy here in Phoenix. I use a bit of 322 in my 223's but never in the 6X45.
My good luck loads have been in running the new 8208, AA 2015 and AA 2520. I also do well with RL 15.
I've never seen one that shot into 8". My current 6X45 from BHW has been used at 500 yard F-Class matches and has done well. I would expect an 8" at that range but mostly 5" if I do my part with the big bullets.
If I wanted to wring this one out I would grab the 70 grain Noslers, set at 2.260 with no crimp, and a jug of 8208, RL15 and 2520 and head out loading to the top end like you have done in 0.5 grain increments with ten shots at each level starting 1.0 grain below MAX. In that 90 shots I would have me a load 9 times out of ten.
Greg
|
|
|
Post by Babaganoush on Apr 9, 2013 16:13:08 GMT -8
As Greg said, an 8" group seems pretty extreme, and even my Century Arms WASR 10 never shot quite that bad. So something has to be seriously not right.
I see that neither scope or mount were mentioned. I would go over this build to ensure every thing is aligned, tight and solid. If possible, I would also consider trying a different scope just to check. Almost any would do, as long as they are a known quantity.
I would also consider checking the torque on the barrel nut, ensuring it hasn't either walked out or is too tight. This is not an issue often, from what I gather, but it is one of the only points where variations can creep in.
I have, on the other hand, seen several cases of poor groups or shifting zeros being solved by tightening or replacing (loose reticle) the optics.
Good luck.
|
|
|
Post by GLSHOOTER on Apr 9, 2013 16:17:52 GMT -8
As Greg said, an 8" group seems pretty extreme, and even my Century Arms WASR 10 never shot quite that bad. So something has to be seriously not right. I see that neither scope or mount were mentioned. I would go over this build to ensure every thing is aligned, tight and solid. If possible, I would also consider trying a different scope just to check. Almost any would do, as long as they are a known quantity. I would also consider checking the torque on the barrel nut, ensuring it hasn't either walked out or is too tight. This is not an issue often, from what I gather, but it is one of the only points where variations can creep in. I have, on the other hand, seen several cases of poor groups or shifting zeros being solved by tightening or replacing (loose reticle) the optics. Good luck. I agree the usual suspect is the scope/mounts in many cases. Never seen a barrel over tight but loose I have seen. I figure the OP has enough experience to check the mounts. This will be an interesting one. Greg
|
|
|
Post by jwiatrek on Apr 10, 2013 10:06:31 GMT -8
I appreciate your input.
I have been through the rifle a few times before shooting the last series. Including remounting the barrel and a different receiver as well as swapping out scopes and mounts.
Even went so far as to remove the muzzle brake and tried that for some strings. I have seen nothing that has made any significant difference.
The only pattern I see is that the lighter weight bullets do shoot a bit better than the heavy weight. Where as 87 grain vmax are 8 inch groups, the 70gr bullets are in the 2 1/2 to 3 inch range ... either way not so good.
I am going to try a few more of the 70gr using the powders suggested (8208 & RL15) and see what I can get ... if none of those get me into an acceptable range then I will send it to Black Hole and see if there is a problem with the barrel itself.
|
|
|
Post by blopez50 on Apr 10, 2013 10:46:23 GMT -8
^ I've had the same luck with my 6x45 barrel. I have a 243 and some 223s from BHW that all shoot well.
I just can't get the 6x45 to shoot. Andy and the guys here were even nice enough to let me exchange the barrel for another one (really appreciate it), but it didn't help.
My best groups are with H322 and the 58 Vmax. I can get them to about 2.5".
I really wanted to shoot the 70gr NBT but I can't get them below 3". I've tried H322 and 8202. From min to max (even a touch over). I've tried CCI 400s and 450s. Also played with some different OALs.
I have more than one group <.4 with my 243 so I have the ability to load and shoot accurate rounds. I just can't figure this one out.
|
|
|
Post by GLSHOOTER on Apr 10, 2013 12:06:59 GMT -8
^ I've had the same luck with my 6x45 barrel. I have a 243 and some 223s from BHW that all shoot well. I just can't get the 6x45 to shoot. Andy and the guys here were even nice enough to let me exchange the barrel for another one (really appreciate it), but it didn't help. My best groups are with H322 and the 58 Vmax. I can get them to about 2.5". I really wanted to shoot the 70gr NBT but I can't get them below 3". I've tried H322 and 8202. From min to max (even a touch over). I've tried CCI 400s and 450s. Also played with some different OALs. I have more than one group <.4 with my 243 so I have the ability to load and shoot accurate rounds. I just can't figure this one out. Three that work for me are Reloader 15, H4895 and Varget. The Varget is slow but it seems to really like to shoot. The RL15 is my goto powder for long range stuff. H4895 is about the same as the RL15 but I didn't have a lot of it to work with when I started shooting the BHW barrel. It may well be the powder when I revisit it. Greg PS: One other thing might be a bullet change is in order. A talented fellow that I respect told me that at times just choosing a certain bullet to shoot at insisting it do well is like taking a child and expecting them to like Brussels sprouts. Some love 'em and some hate but one thing is sure there is no middle ground n Brussels sprouts. Guess which side I'm on!!
|
|
|
Post by helotaxi on Aug 25, 2013 8:30:27 GMT -8
I'm getting likewise horrid results from my 6x45 BHW barrel. I've disassembled and reassembled the rifle several time to make sure that everything was tight. I've used several scopes and mounts (including several known good combinations). I've tried 55gn SBK, 58gn V-max, 62gn Barnes Varmint Grenades, 65gn Berger FB match, 68gn Barnes Match Burners and 70gn SBKs and Blitz. I've tried 8208, X-terminator/2230, 322 and probably one or two others. Brass is LC. Dies are Forster. I've loaded both single stage on a Forster Co-ax and on a Dillon 550b. I'm not crimping (my dies won't and I don't usually anyway).
Barrel is a 1:10 twist, 24", rifle gas, normal contour with fluting, threaded with a Smith "Good Iron" brake. Looks great. Lightweight. Shoots soft. Reliable.
Initially, I was getting "Army" groups; left, right, left, right... Shots fell into two distinct groups based on the side of the magazine that they came from with neither group being particularly good. Single loaded, they fell into a single group, but hardly a good one (3" at best). I traced the split group issue to a burr on one side of the feed ramps and stoned it smooth. Rounds feeding up that side were alternately having the bullets heavily scored or even hanging up. After breaking the edges with a stone, that settled down and ejecting a chambered round showed them none the worse for wear.
Of the above bullets, the Bergers shot the "best" with an average group in the 3" range and the occasional 2", but never better. With the Varmint Grenades "patterns" would be the better description. Maybe 25% of the shots would be on a 18" square sheet of paper with evidence of keyholing on some of them. Everything else fell somewhere in between those two extremes, but at least punched round holes. I did run some loads over the chrono and the ES and SD were not excessive; velocity was excellent.
The most frustrating part of all of this is that the barrel will act like it wants to shoot for a group and then it will go completely to hell for the next group.
At this point I'm thinking that it's going to have to go back to BHW to let them look at it. Possibly just cut the threaded portion off the barrel and have it re-crowned without threads? Completely replace the barrel?
|
|
|
Post by GLSHOOTER on Aug 25, 2013 10:40:25 GMT -8
That is a tough one. The left right thing is weird and I have never heard of that. I assume the upper was trued but that shouldn't have that big an effect either way. I would guess you have shot it without the muzzle device. I've never shot the VG's so can't speak to that.
Send me a PM and we will chat.
Greg
|
|
blm148
Junior Member
Posts: 34
|
Post by blm148 on Dec 14, 2013 15:55:53 GMT -8
I also had a lot more work that I anticipated in getting my 6x45 20" to shoot well. I started out with h335 and hornady 75gr bthp. I was never able to get this bullet to shoot no matter what powder I used. I wanted to get away from h335 due to it being pressure sensitive and I was running into pressure issues early on.
I then went to varget and 75 gr sie hpbt varminters. Varget did not produce velocities anywhere near where I was expecting and groups hovered around 1-1.5".
On Greg's advice I bought a few pounds of h4895 and found groups that were .75 or better. At 26.7 groups were ranging from .5-.75 which was good enough for my and for the coyotes I would be slinging lead at. It is also very stable temperature wise. With the 75gr sierras I am coming out o the muzzle at 2915. I even have good luck with the barnes 80gr ttsx just playing around with them they shot very well. I have used the 75gr sierra varminter hp on a ton of coyotes and always have exits on broad side shots but with manageable (in my opinion) exit holes if you keep the hides. A majority of my frontal chest shots have shown no exit. I have also taken a Montana whitetail doe at 160 yards and had a complete pass through behind both shoulders buttering both lungs and a 10 yard recovery on her. A very economical and versatile load if you can live with the relatively low bc.
So in all I would recommend sticking with one of the powders that Greg recommended and playing around with different bullets and charges.
|
|
|
Post by slipperhead on Feb 13, 2014 10:16:35 GMT -8
I'm going take Greg's advice too!
I have a new 6x45 20" barrel and can't get 85gr Noslers to shoot worth a darn with BLC2 powder. Pressure signs too at 25.5grs. I've had great luck with BLC2 with the .223 and 50-55gr bullets. I figured it would perform similarly with the new barrel and heavier bullets but.....not to be!
I have some 70gr bullets I'm going to try with BLC2. If I can't get them to work, I happen to have some Varget so I will give that a whirl, as per Greg!
Garland in VA
|
|