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Post by Tooreal on Aug 1, 2013 23:02:20 GMT -8
Hello,
I just wanted to give you Guys some feedback regarding the 300 Blackout from the SouthEast part of the U.S.. I live in Middle Tennessee and the terrain here is SO Drastically different than where you Guys are Hunting, and we only have White Tail Deer which are Much smaller than the Mule Deer that you Hunt. The 300 Blackout is a Perfect Round for Deer hunting here where your longest shot may be 100 yards at the Most, it could be farther but Most likely it won't? We have so many Hills with thick Brush it really is tough to get a Long Range shot in most places, so the 300 Blackout SuperSonic or Subsonic Both work Great. There are a Lot of people that Hunt Wild Hogs in Texas, Georgia and South Carolina with the Blackout using 220 Grain SMK's Subsonic. If you've never seen what a 30 Caliber 220 Grain bullet will do to a Deer or a Wild Boar shooting Subsonic rounds, you really should check it out. That bullet is devastating on a Deer or Hog, especially if you hit the front shoulder! It will shatter their shoulder and make a mess of the Vital parts, every time.. When I first started shooting Subsonic after I got my Suppressors, I focused on my 300 Blackout first and began loading my ammo.. I hadn't thought much about the amount of energy that 200 Grain 30 caliber bullet had traveling at about 1050 FPS, but after I propped up a couple of 2 x 4's & a piece of plywood and zeroed in my AR-15, shot it supressed & it sounded like a Pop Gun Every Shot ;-). It was So Much fun and I have No idea how many rounds I fired, maybe 200?? But, when I was finished shooting I got my Targets & put them away, then I took down the plywood & 2x4's and set them on the ground to take them back with me. Then I walked behind the Church to take a leak, and as I stood there looking BACK at where I had been shooting FROM?? OMG =-0 It LOOKED like there had BEEN a WAR Fought there? My Gosh, there were these Obvious Bullet Holes in SO MANY Trees, from 2 inches up to SIX inch Diameter Trees where the bullets went threw the trees & BLEW OUT the Back, knocking Off the Bark & Exposing So Much light Fresh WOOD all Splintered out??? I felt Horrible about what I had done to so many trees around that Historic Church & Old School House. The next spring I found out a LOT of DEAD Tree's had to be cut down around that old Building because they had died?? I felt like a POS when I Heard that?!!?!!?!?!?!?!!
That's when I found out what a Subsonic Bullet would Actually do to Tree's, both Big & Small.. That's a Lot of Energy!
If I'm not mistaken, a 220 Grain 30 Caliber Bullet being fired from a 10" Barrel has 10 Times more Energy than a 75 Grain 223 Bullet being fired from a 20" Barrel... Is that correct?? I believe it now since I've been shooting my 10.5" 300 Blackout Barrel from BHW, it still sends the bullets sailing threw the trees (Literally)! Last week I went to the Range and shot my AR SBR suppressed and was able to hit an 8" Armored Steel Target at 204 yards, 28 times out of 29 shots fired. Using my Aimpoint RedDot Optic with no other magnification. I am SO impressed with that 10.5" Black Hole Weaponry Barrel that I converted to use a Pistol Length Gas system, that thing is a Tack Driver, Literally!!!!!
BHW Makes the Best Barrels, Period!!!!!!!!
Also,
Long Range Precision is the name of the company that I bought my suppressors from. The owners name is Brad & he is a really nice guy, He showed me a NEW Short 223 AR Suppresser that he sells for $500.00? It's maybe 5 inches long or Less and it's for regular or Subsonic Rounds!! I asked him if it really made the noise quiet enough to Not have to use Hearing protection when shooting Hot Lake City Ammo, and he said it sure does. We then went outside where we shot his AR-15 with some Lake City Military Ammo that I had in my car. (I wanted to use my own ammo to make sure it was really working?) It really did take the Loud Noise out of the 556 Ammo that we shot, and we didn't use any ear protection at all... It was not completely suppressed, but with that Can you could probably shoot Hot Subsonic Rounds, seriously!!! He Developed and made that can for the police Department, but then decided to sell it to the General public too. I don't do a lot of shopping for 223/556 suppressers so this may not be anything special, but I have Never seen a 556 can this small & short ever, either??? I thought it was for a 380 when I 1st saw it?
Eric
I had No idea that the Blackout was capable of causing so much Damage to the trees?
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Aug 2, 2013 5:51:55 GMT -8
Very good report. I have not played with the BLK. Looks like it does a great job.
Greg
BTW the energy on 220 at 1200 is 705. The 75 233 at 2700 Is 1214. The BLK is about the same as a 44 Magnum when it is subsonic though it does get a tad better penetration.t
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Post by wfa on Jan 5, 2015 10:07:31 GMT -8
Not much activity on this thread for a long time. Some thoughts, observations, and opinion: I have two 300 AAC ARs. The first is a factory S&W free float upper, the second is a "build" using "another manufacturer's barrel". Both have carbine length gas systems, non-adjustable gas blocks; both are 16", "5R"; both will shoot MOA groups WITH GOOD BULLETS, but with "run of the mill" bullets 2 MOA is normal, and to me, acceptable. The 300 AAC is an M1 Carbine on steroids (IMO) so I have no intention of using it beyond 100 yards or there about. I've found that for subsonics (168-245gr, no can), RL-7 is the way to go. The "problem" is incomplete combustion. Unburned powder can, and will eventually, find it's way into the trigger and lock things up. AA1680 is much better in this department, but accuracy isn't as good. Function, with both powders, is fine - no FTF/FTE, but bolt lock on the last round is "maybe". I use the AR-15 BCG vs M-16 - the slightly lighter carrier seems to improve function with subsonic rounds. With "supersonic" 110-130 gr bullets, H110/W296 is the way to go, but work up CAREFULLY. Both will "spike" pressure if you load too low. You DO NOT want to compress these powders. Speer 125gr "TNT" are accurate, but I've not had any luck getting them to expand; Speer 130 HP "explode"; Speer 110 SP are my "go to" bullet - accurate @ around 2300 fps, and expand in my test media (a series of water filled jugs), range 50 yards. Plinking rounds are 150gr FMJ over AA1680. I've found nothing better in either rifle for "cheap" fun. They aren't "fast", but they function just fine, shoot close enough to my "go to" load to not be concerned, and they're "inexpensive" (by today's standards). I use CCI 450 primers - thicker cup, the poor mans "military primer". To be honest, CCI 400 have never given me any problems, and all my loads function/shoot the same using either. Any 5.56 magazine seems to work fine. COAL is set by using a sized 25 caliber (250 Savage/25-06) case to scribe the bullet ogive - that line should approximately line up with the "rib" in the magazine. I use nothing but 10 round MagPul magazines for one reason only - if it's a Magpul 10, it's 300 AAC. All the 300 AAC mags also have a large red dot on the left side (wife's nail polish). A 300 AAC fired in a 5.56 upper could get "interesting"! Cases are made from reformed LC brass, although MOST others will work just fine. BE CAREFUL, there is a huge difference in reformed 5.56 case capacity. "CBC" is on the "forget it" list. Reformed CBC has necks that are too large to chamber without turning, and that's just another PITA. I've not found this problem with any other headstamp. A little bit of my "qualifications": I've made almost 70 trips around the sun, have been a handloader for about 40 years, ran a small (part time) gunshop, "assembled" bolt action rifles while stationed in Alaska (and made more money part time than the military paid me!). The good news is that I'm still learning and enjoying both handloading, and shooting. Hope this is of help to those with 300 AAC rifles, or those "thinking about it". I'm thinking that I may just build another the next time BHW has a sale!
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jan 5, 2015 10:15:36 GMT -8
Thanks for the report. Very good information.
Carl has the A-30 running subsonic now and it should make for a good shoot out.
Greg
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Post by jeffytune on Jan 18, 2015 12:37:25 GMT -8
WFA, could you go into a little more detail on the COAL procedure please?
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Post by wfa on Jan 19, 2015 7:01:05 GMT -8
I'll try, but it's so simple it's hard to explain. Using a sized 250 Savage, 25-06, or any other 25 cal rifle case you have, or can beg, borrow, or.... no, don't steal. Anyway, using a 25 caliber case which uses a .258" projectile, insert the bullet of interest, ogive first into the neck of the 25 caliber case(by hand). Turn the bullet, or the case, in a rotary motion so that the bullet is marked; this will be very close to the "magical" .25" diameter that should line up with the forward rib of the magazine. Adjust your seating die so that happens when the bullet is seated in the assembled 300 AAC round. Depending on the magazine, bullet shape, and the rifle, there is a whole lot of latitude as to how much you can vary from this "mark", but it does provide a good reference point. If you seat the bullet longer than the reloading manual specifies for that bullet you could run into magazine length, free bore, and land erosion issues; if you seat the bullet shorter (deeper into the case), you run into decreased case capacity (which could raise pressures "dramatically" in a case as small as the 300 AAC), so (lawyer inspired and mandated warning), USE WITH CAUTION! Hope I answered your question; let me know if I didn't! Walt
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2015 10:04:04 GMT -8
Why guess where the lands start? Using the method described above has nothing to do with chamber measurement. If you are really concerned with getting to close to the lands just load to prescribed length. Every manual out there has an OACL for every bullet. If you want to load for maximum accuracy measure the chamber length. and seat as close as possible to the rifling. Measuring a chamber length is an easy task if you have the proper tools. I use a Sinclair. Hornady also makes a tool but it requires a special case. Which ever method chosen, get a measurement to the lands. This same measurement will tell you where to seat your bullet. Or where not to seat the bullet. If you run standard 5.56 magazines it will be impossible to reach the lands with an OAL of 2.260. Here is an example. A factory loaded Remington 125 grain hollow point has an OAL length of 2.235 using the same bullet and measuring the chamber length of a SAAMI 300 chamber, the maximum COAL that could be loaded would be 2.413. A 168 SMK measures 2.264. Case in point, never guess what you chamber length is MEASURE it. If you don't have the means to measure your chamber consult the reloading manual from the manufacturer of the bullets being used.
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Post by wfa on Jan 19, 2015 10:44:33 GMT -8
My reply was to address FEEDING from the magazine. Many people have problems getting "unlisted" bullets to feed properly. This was my solution. As I stated, other issues need to be addressed.
I was attempting to "answer the question asked." If you feel my response is not appropriate please delete it.
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Post by stooxie on Jan 22, 2015 13:17:29 GMT -8
I would love to see some pictures from deer that have been shot with subsonic rounds. Curious to see the damage. I hunt deer with 300BLK in Virginia and I would be very hesitant to shoot with subsonic rounds just because the terminal energy is so low. You're talking 500 lbs ft at the muzzle. I like to be above (preferably way above) 800 ft pounds at the animal.
Now, I recognize that ballistics on paper doesn't necessarily translate to venison in the freezer so hence my question. I'd also like to know what bullet you're using. I don't see much in the way of factory subsonic rounds. I guess most people just handload for that?
Everything else I've read says don't go subsonic for hunting deer with 300BLK.
Thanks, -Stooxie
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Post by wfa on Jan 23, 2015 8:48:15 GMT -8
I've shot no game with the 300 BLK (yet), but years ago I shot an average size buck, "ugly" rack (spike on one side, fork on the other), using a cast 340 gr (custom mould) bullet, 1150-1200 fps, from a .338 Mag. Energy was in the .357 Mag range as I had picked up my target loads vs hunting. He walked 20 yards. I never recovered the bullet, but the liver was "mush". This doesn't really answer the question, but does give clues as to the performance one might expect.
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