KAG
Junior Member
Posts: 17
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25x45
Mar 15, 2011 14:37:44 GMT -8
Post by KAG on Mar 15, 2011 14:37:44 GMT -8
I spoke with Carl today and discussed a couple of things. I have been doing lots of testing with the 25/223. I plan tomorrow to order a 22" 25x45 barrel from BH and have it rifle length ported. This barrel will differ from the one I have now in that it will be 22", current one is 18" 1:10 twist Shilen. It also will be a rifle length gas system. Currently the one I have it mid-length. I want greater dwell time. The profile I want is just the standard profile BH has been producing for most of their 6x45. The 25x45 will differ from the 25/223 chambering in that the neck length will be standard 223 length instead of the 1.70 case length of the 25/223. 1:10 twist rate is the slowest I have been able to source presently. I wanted these changes because I now have about 800 rds fired in my 25/223. I think I have compiled quite a bit of actual real world data that supports needing a longer barrel to stabilize lighter bullets moving at or above 3000fps accurately. I could be wrong, we will see as its all about testing and data collection presently for me. Presently 100gr or above bullets shoot accurately easily. The lighter bullets 70gr to 90gr bullets wander when speeds are above 2800 or so but tighten up when kept 2500 to 2700fps. I have done quite a bit of testing using barrel weight to see it it was a barrel harmonicas issue and the data keep leading be back to barrel length to rule out. Light Bullets fired from a 26" gun (25-06) are moving 3500+fps and are very accurate out of my heavy barrel Savage. Also in the back of my mind I have been working on drawing for a 25/243 RSCM (Ruger Super Compact magnum) Its just a 300 RCM (Ruger Compact Magnum) necked down to a 25cal or 243 with the case shortened to work within an AR platform. My thoughts on that are simular to a 25 or 243 WSSM without the shoulder angles. Something easy to reload for or maybe just decease the shoulder angle on a WSSM case since brass is readily available. I also have been doing some actual terminal bullet wound testing using 25cal bullets under 3000fps: 70gr Sierra Blitzkings - Very Good (mild wind drift) 2nd Favorite 75gr V-Max - Very Good (did not do well in the wind) 75gr Sierra HP - Good (poor wind bullet) 85gr Nosler BT - Great (devastating) My Favorite so far 87gr Speer TNT - Poor openings at 2900fps or less. Pass through. Best flyer in wind of those tested. 87gr Speer SP - Several pass through. Should be a good deer bullet. Little wind drift noted 90gr Sierra Blitzkings - Great (devastating) Just posting from the fog, otherwise known as my mind..... Some of the different Powders I have been working with
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25x45
Mar 16, 2011 15:55:43 GMT -8
Post by The Wolverine on Mar 16, 2011 15:55:43 GMT -8
Why not do a 25-Grendel/LBC? I ran the numbers a few months back, and it is pretty impressive. Brass is everywhere, one pass threw a FL resizing die, and you are good to go. Call Dave at PTG and he will hook you up with the reamer, then get the drawing to Dave at CH4D, and sit back and wait.
The 6mm that Ritch and I put together based off the LBC is getting awesome velocities. I am waiting on parts to finish my build, but Kerry and Ritch have theirs together and they are getting one hole accuracy, and great speeds, I believe Kerry got over 2900 fps out of a 95gr VLD.
I am afraid that the lack of accuracy in you 18" has nothing to do with the length of the barrel. Your BHW should be a tack driver at any length.
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25x45
Mar 16, 2011 19:50:21 GMT -8
Post by mtbugle on Mar 16, 2011 19:50:21 GMT -8
I also am a little curious how barrel length in affecting lighter bullet accuracy. Velocity maybe. Are you saying you are not able to achieve sufficient velicity to get into the next sweet spot? Also since this is my first post I should say hi everyone.
Thanks Don.
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KAG
Junior Member
Posts: 17
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25x45
Mar 21, 2011 16:31:00 GMT -8
Post by KAG on Mar 21, 2011 16:31:00 GMT -8
I long ago looked into a 25 Grendel and 25 SPC. Both are solid rounds and would no doubt easily produce a good 25cal wildcat.
One of the reasons I chose this was to work on the light bullets that had not been really explored. Once I determine a good length that light bullets like I plan to start trimming it back. Getting it shoot 100gr bullets and up is easy.....but that's not what I am after. I hope to be able to push 3100+ accurately.
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25x45
Apr 22, 2011 14:08:22 GMT -8
Post by chris65 on Apr 22, 2011 14:08:22 GMT -8
Kag
What test medium are you using for your terminal bullet wound testing? Also what distance?
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25x45
Jun 6, 2011 8:38:06 GMT -8
Post by medic1216 on Jun 6, 2011 8:38:06 GMT -8
I am very new to reloading, so I don't have too much knowledge on the subject. Where can I find equipment (dies, etc.) and information about the 25x45mm? I am very interested in your work and I would very much like my next AR build, to be a 25x45mm.
Much thanks from a rookie, Medic1216
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KAG
Junior Member
Posts: 17
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25x45
Jul 9, 2011 18:13:55 GMT -8
Post by KAG on Jul 9, 2011 18:13:55 GMT -8
Still in a holding pattern on the barrel.
I did recently have a chance to do some more wound testing on a couple of coyotes using 85gr Nolsers out to 125m. The Noslers are impressive in the wound they create. One was shot in the right front side shoulder and it did not splash but opened after it passed through the socket. I had a Vmax splash on me with a solid front shoulder hit. I am fairly sure it entered the shoulder area ....it was not a drt shot.
The Sierra 70 and 90gr BK are very promising......just waiting on the new barrel before investing much more in actual hunting time.
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KAG
Junior Member
Posts: 17
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25x45
Dec 15, 2011 19:06:43 GMT -8
Post by KAG on Dec 15, 2011 19:06:43 GMT -8
Just thought I would post an update. I have done lots of work with this and lots of testing. I like it. This deer didn't. Killed with a 100gr Speer SP After bouncing many other things around I am going a different directions sort of. With the new Oly 22-250 out I am "supposed" to be getting one for Xmas and with its ability to shoot cases up to 48mm and OAL 2.35 it really has opened up a flood of ideas for me mainly looking at the 47mm Lapua case...lets see maybe in a .257. Since very few things are actual new....I found a drawing to at least get me going....still lots to ponder on as I do not want an AI...the bullet in the drawing is believed to be a 120gr....I am looking at 100gr and less. I been using lots of 70gr Sierra BK's....really devastating on yotes.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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25x45
Dec 15, 2011 20:32:05 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2011 20:32:05 GMT -8
I like your work. You got something really interesting going there. I find the v-maxes in both 6mm and 6.5 are good performers too. I also like the nosler BT. very good on white tail.
I think one very attractive is the 6.5BR so the .25BR should do very well if you do not like 6mm or 6.5. That will give you the velocities you want and accuracy of this case in any of the calibers is superb so far. I think you will need the 22" but will need to run that by QL. The cases do well even at nominal 57K psi. w/o any signs of stress. I think you would need to make a choice in the reamer to make sure you have the right step/angle into the lands for those bullets you want. The BR feeds like a charm from the 6.8 PRI mags if you want to use in the AR.
Another issue is to have a strong bolt with the 308w. face and extensions for the AR15. I believe the BH has those but not sure.
The WSSMs are great. very strong but in the AR15 mag the case length kills them for the LR bullet options. Very nice in deed. Thanks for sharing.
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25x45
Dec 16, 2011 9:45:05 GMT -8
Post by The Wolverine on Dec 16, 2011 9:45:05 GMT -8
Kag
Nice buck!!!
By the time you shorten that case enough to fit in a AR, you will have a 25 BRX, and that should shoot a 70 gr some where near 3600fps, and that will be a yote hammer for sure.
Paul
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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25x45
Dec 16, 2011 9:57:47 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2011 9:57:47 GMT -8
Kag Where are you getting your dies for the 25X45?
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KAG
Junior Member
Posts: 17
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25x45
Dec 16, 2011 18:29:39 GMT -8
Post by KAG on Dec 16, 2011 18:29:39 GMT -8
That is some great information to look at....just fixated on the 47mm case design right now.
I am thinking with the number of 257 bullets I have worked with I believe the case may not have to be shortened with some of them. Rumor is a 65gr is coming out but who knows. . I have a set of dies coming in 6x47 and 6.5x47. Once I get them I can load a few mocked up rounds in .257 and measure the OAL. I will be able to tell more then.....I have several other ideas floating around. Just lots and lots of interesting stuff to think about. 25PPC, 250 Savage Improved (28degree)....things likes this
The 6mm and 6.5mm are great bullets but I like the .257 as I feel its over looked and under rated. Just my thing....
Primarily I am always interested in easy to work with, based on a proven parent case, and simplistic reloading. I want feed and function to work flawlessly in an AR. No sharp shoulders or fire forming....straight up basic reloading. Having to trim back a case to make it work is a deal breaker for me in other than basic trim to length type stuff you normally would do.
The 25x45 dies: CH4D in 25/223. Absolutely zero issue loading for the 25x45 using these. I did however test a work around using different dies to load with and no problems other than PITA changing out dies, bushing, and expander balls. I know several of the die makers have the drawings and have made the dies. Rumor is redding is doing run for Sharps....but who knows what the real truth is. I spoke with the guy at Sharps about it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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25x45
Dec 16, 2011 19:17:26 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2011 19:17:26 GMT -8
Thanks for posting your ideas. It is a good thing to have an idea and to stick to it and follow through. I was told by many folks, even some experienced veteran old BR shooters the 6x45 could not do this or that and I have been able to better what they all had both in accuracy and speed w/o getting into the red. We all are good old buds so we all get a quick of these findings. I cannot wait for the new barrel. I think you are right, it seems like anything is not metric system is not popular these days. lol! while I find the .25 a perfect compromise between the 6 and 6.5 for many uses. I like your idea of simple. Simple is better and less is more. 30 degree shoulder or not, the cases have to be easy to reload and hopefully not too costly. These hobbies are getting to be very expensive and time consuming. I am now stuck with 3 projects myself and looking forward for your findings. Many companies are trying to invent the next great super cool AR-15 caliber but almost everything, including the wheel, has already been invented by our ancestors. We just have to make it better. I think I found a way to load 300 savage rounds form a heavily modified AR15 magazine. Now I need to find a nice 308w face bolt and extension and cut it to my spec. nothing fancy, 2 mags in 5 and 10-11 rounds and a 18" light and perfect white tail popper. (like many others). By the way I love that buck you took.
In your research I think you will benefit from the VLD magazines. Extremely hard to find that might give you a little extra edge specially with Varget and slower powders to use in the new longer barrel. that is the only way I find to maximize on length and powder volume w/o compromising on pressure. At the same time that the .223 is the case that suffers most from COAL with the heavier/longer bullets is the only that can benefit from the VLD magazine. It almost looks like stoner saw it coming to have some SPR opportunities available for long range work.
Cheers, E.
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25x45
Feb 27, 2013 13:30:19 GMT -8
Post by jedakiego on Feb 27, 2013 13:30:19 GMT -8
Thanks for the information. I am ordering a 25X45 VERY soon!
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25x45
Feb 27, 2013 18:41:48 GMT -8
Post by GLSHOOTER on Feb 27, 2013 18:41:48 GMT -8
Thanks for the information. I am ordering a 25X45 VERY soon! How did you pick that one? Greg
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