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Post by edegeorge on Sept 25, 2011 11:15:28 GMT -8
Has anyone had any problems getting Barnes bullets to shoot well? I have tried 100 and 120 gr bullets with various power charges and they all key hole the target. Another thing I noticed is that the 120 gr Barnes ttsx shoot 14 in higher in my gun at 100 yrd than a Nosler bt of the same weight and powder charge. I have an 18in standard profile barrel in 264lbc. Other bullets shoot pretty good including nosler and hornady form 100 to 123 gr.
Your thought would be greatly appreciated!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2011 11:50:03 GMT -8
I took the last Barnes bullets I had and drilled holes in them and used them for worm weights. Then I spent about 8 hours trying to clean the copper out of my barrel. I have not used them since.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2011 12:37:24 GMT -8
I have tried them in a couple caliber and none shoot better then 8 in groups and like Ritch said you will clean your gun for two days trying to get copper out of barrel , save yourself alot of time and headach shoot anything but Barnes.
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Post by edegeorge on Sept 25, 2011 13:07:32 GMT -8
That is good to know. Now I can get back to dialing in my 120 Nosler Ballistic Tips. With my first load I was able to get about a 1 1/4 in group at 100 so hopefully with a little more fine tuning I will get that sought after clover leaf!
Thanks for the responses!
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Post by Brandon Sneed on Sept 26, 2011 4:09:20 GMT -8
It's extremely interesting the problems and extent that these guys have with barnes products. I've not had any issues shooting them in my 6.8spc. I've shot 85, 95, and 110gr and all shot 1moa or better. Usually better once the barrel was broken in.
They are solid copper so they are longer and quite possibly loaded at the ogive? I would assume that these guys have loaded them accordingly and properly. However these incidents of issues are not the rule but the exception.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2011 6:20:38 GMT -8
It's extremely interesting the problems and extent that these guys have with barnes products. I've not had any issues shooting them in my 6.8spc. I've shot 85, 95, and 110gr and all shot 1moa or better. Usually better once the barrel was broken in. They are solid copper so they are longer and quite possibly loaded at the ogive? I would assume that these guys have loaded them accordingly and properly. However these incidents of issues are not the rule but the exception. Brandon You must own the golden barrel. Also I can assure you the Barnes bullets were loaded properly and accordingly. I can also assure you I have plenty of experience reloading metallic cased ammo. Is 45 years enough? Barnes bullets not shooting is quite normal. Anytime you start a bullet a min. of .050 off the lands it is not conducive to good accuracy. It also uses case capacity because the bullets are long for their weight. Or you have to use a lighter weight bullet to get your powder load back up. When you go that route the bullet will lose sectional density. This will cause it to not only slow down faster but also increase wind deflection. Problem #2 is bullet composition. Barnes bullets are made from a copper alloy that is malleable so it will conform to the bore. It also aids in expansion. When a bullet is soft and riding up the bore it will wipe jacket material on the bore of the barrel. On the second shot ( because like metals Gall ) the jacket material is actually torn away from the bullet, and now you have a fouled bore. I suggest before you question someones ability on an open forum, you sit back and think before you let your fingers start talking.
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Post by Brandon Sneed on Sept 26, 2011 7:02:55 GMT -8
It's extremely interesting the problems and extent that these guys have with barnes products. I've not had any issues shooting them in my 6.8spc. I've shot 85, 95, and 110gr and all shot 1moa or better. Usually better once the barrel was broken in. They are solid copper so they are longer and quite possibly loaded at the ogive? I would assume that these guys have loaded them accordingly and properly. However these incidents of issues are not the rule but the exception. Brandon You must own the golden barrel. Also I can assure you the Barnes bullets were loaded properly and accordingly. I can also assure you I have plenty of experience reloading metallic cased ammo. Is 45 years enough? Barnes bullets not shooting is quite normal. Anytime you start a bullet a min. of .050 off the lands it is not conducive to good accuracy. It also uses case capacity because the bullets are long for their weight. Or you have to use a lighter weight bullet to get your powder load back up. When you go that route the bullet will lose sectional density. This will cause it to not only slow down faster but also increase wind deflection. Problem #2 is bullet composition. Barnes bullets are made from a copper alloy that is malleable so it will conform to the bore. It also aids in expansion. When a bullet is soft and riding up the bore it will wipe jacket material on the bore of the barrel. On the second shot ( because like metals Gall ) the jacket material is actually torn away from the bullet, and now you have a fouled bore. I suggest before you question someones ability on an open forum, you sit back and think before you let your fingers start talking. Take a minute and breathe. I wasn't questioning anyone's abilities or knowledge. Hence the question; it wasn't demonstrative. I've shot barnes in 3 separate barrels: WOA, Wilson combat and our beloved bhw poly 3 barrels. The bhw did not Luke them one bit until broken in. The Wilson the same and if I shot with a copper plated or bonded then the barnes o had tremendous fliers. Proper cleaning showed good results for me as well as not mixing ammo. I buy factory ammo for my testing purposes. There's a reason for that. If t works from the factory then I'll load from there. And as far as running my mouth. I simply made a one sentence statement making an assumption to your loading them and with positive reassurance that both of your experiences were after doing the loading of the longer bullet correctly as you have reaffirmed. It was not a pot shot at your abilities to discern the correct method of loading those bullets. I tend to hold my tongue and usually do not post on the forum because I SK watch what I say. I have a job to do and a testimony to keep as a Christian but as a prostaff as well. Some on other forums on the other hand are a little more free spirited. I will say this: my experiences are what I was offering and that was all. There hundreds of thousands of these bullets manufactured every year and continue to be. If this was the rule for these projectiles then the company would not be selling the projectiles anymore. Correct assumption? Same goes for Carls barrels.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2011 17:41:53 GMT -8
I have used TSX for many years and what it touches it drops dead as hitting by lighting. Never had issues with any barrel or rifling. I do always work my hunting loads and have no problem grouping like any other good bullet. In the hunt never had to use more than one so far but it will shoot as it always shoots. I have my hunting loads for hunting and for practice I use other better (and cheaper) ones for that. I do clean my rifles before I put them away.
Look for the proper Load, COAL and specially rate of twist. The manufacturer provides all info you need. If you have a slow moving bullets you might be better with a softer one.
Any off the shelve bore cleaner / copper solvent will take care of any issues. Cheers, E.
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Post by edegeorge on Sept 27, 2011 6:25:19 GMT -8
Thanks for the responses gentleman! I have since cleaned my barrel with a copper solvent and loaded several more barnes ranging from 100 to 120 along with diferent oal and powder charges and I still get the key hole marks in the target. Since I have several boxes of barnes bullets I would like to use them but they are proving to be a challenge to load so far. Thanks again for the replies. If anyone is getting good results I would like to know the powder type being used. If not I will stick to the Noslers.
Thanks, Eric
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Post by The Wolverine on Sept 27, 2011 17:00:49 GMT -8
I, nor anybody I know, have ever gotten better than 2 moa with barnes bullets. That is unacceptable. I have tried in several calibers, if you want to kill critters, get Partitions.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2011 17:57:08 GMT -8
No prob. Keyholing is not a sign of bad accuracy but a sign that the bullet is not stabilized so you cannot even start measuring any accuracy at this point. Let me try to help you. Please let me know:
1-what bullet are you shooting precisely model, grain, ref.nr.. 2-What barrel twist 3-what load are you using, including OAL.
Barnes could be finicky but no reason not to be accurate. That a bullet doesn't like a barrel is not sign that is a bad bullet. Try others you system might like better. For extreme accuracy probably the Vmaxes and hunting VLDs are some of the best. Partitions and bonded are nice too. Some SGKs are nice too. Sometimes a good hunting load comes out easy and sometimes needs more work and that is the way it is.
Cheers, E.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2011 19:32:57 GMT -8
Ritch and Paul said it right, i know guys that might love those bullets but i would carry a pocket full of rocks before shooting them and telling anyone else to carry them. Ritch told me not to before i tried and with him reloaded and shooting 15 years longer then me being alive i should have lishen to him, but i was hard headed and after ALOT OF WASTED TIME and powder and 8 to 12 inch groups, it took me 2 days to clean all that cooper out my barrel. I Swapped to Sierras next day and first load was .688 and improved from there with alittle fine turning and that was out of a 6.8 and 6x45 also was 150% improvemeant as well. So like the others said , I have shot just about any and all types of bullets and NONE have gave me the problems that Barnes have.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2011 19:45:44 GMT -8
I am sorry you had that experience. they do work fine for me. I will see if I can find some targets from the hunting loads I use. I have been using for a long time so do not need to rework them. I do understand your concerns. I heard that sometimes but I also heard folks dropping game with them left and right just like me. I think everyone should stick with what works for them, no doubt about that.
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Post by Brandon Sneed on Sept 27, 2011 20:08:04 GMT -8
Well. Some reading material from far more expertise than I can offer in the caliber I rarely shoot: texaspredatorposse.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=14612I know the 95gr ttsx for 6.8spc was designed at barnes strictly for the caliber so the bc and design of the projectile was ground up, not retrofit. I see retrofit in the use of the 6.5 projectiles from Barnes as they came before the specific caliber. I think that's got a lot to do with why there's a "consensus" from some of our resident experts and a few others spaces throughout the interwebz. But as oneshot said keyhole is a stabilization thing. In the above link some of the best projectiles for the lbc/Grendel is cup/lead tip style. I would agree since the best factory load I've tested to date has been the amax from hornady. FFT.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2011 6:13:26 GMT -8
Well. Some reading material from far more expertise than I can offer in the caliber I rarely shoot: texaspredatorposse.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=14612I know the 95gr ttsx for 6.8spc was designed at barnes strictly for the caliber so the bc and design of the projectile was ground up, not retrofit. I see retrofit in the use of the 6.5 projectiles from Barnes as they came before the specific caliber. I think that's got a lot to do with why there's a "consensus" from some of our resident experts and a few others spaces throughout the interwebz. But as oneshot said keyhole is a stabilization thing. In the above link some of the best projectiles for the lbc/Grendel is cup/lead tip style. I would agree since the best factory load I've tested to date has been the amax from hornady. FFT. I guess what this whole thread boils down to is, there are bullets out there that are a whole lot easer to make shoot. I don't ever remember seeing or hearing of any one (except Randy Brooks) that has used Barnes bullets for any long range hunting. The same with shooting targets at extreme ranges. I will agree that if you shoot in a lead free area you have to use something other than lead or rocks, solid copper bullets might be a viable alternative. Signed: One of Your Resident Experts
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