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Post by ralphob on Feb 28, 2012 18:18:05 GMT -8
Had a problem develop today which concerns me. I was trying out varying loads on my BHW 264lbc using 123 gr amax's and 120 grain match kings. I set the COL on the amax's at 2.25 and they performed flawlessly. I shot about 10 rds of the match kings at a col of 2.20 with no problem. then all of sudden the gun went click. I tried to eject the round thinking it was a misfire and no matter how hard I yanked on the charging handle I couldn't pull it back. took the upper off, yanked harder and the round came out....looking pretty beat up, both the case and the bullet had scratches but the primer wasn't hit. Put the gun back together, tried to cycle another round, same thing. Did this several more times. I figured that i messed up on the COL,. Got it home and they were dead on at 2.20. I then checked the the cases with a Wilson case guage thinking i didnt knock the shoulders back enough, and they were dead on. I shot maybe 20 rds of the matchkings at this length last week with no problem plus the 10 today. So i cycled some of the amax's thru with no problem. So i made up dummy rounds with the matchkings shorter and shorter with the match kings and tried to cycle them. Wasn't until i got down to 2.18 that they cycled reliably.
I am now wondering if something may be wrong with my bolt, chamber, both. Not sure why this would all of a sudden be a problem. Maybe 2.18 is a appropriate length for the matchking. I have tried over and over again to measure the length to the lands but i continually get huge variances in measurements. someone told me that may be due to the polygonal rifling but that answer never really felt right to me.
Any advice would be much appreciated!!! Thanks!
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Feb 28, 2012 18:46:11 GMT -8
Is the gun dirty? Did you set the shoulders back 0.003? If less than that you need to size more.
Are you using a Stoney Point/Hornady set up to check the lands measurement? You MAY be in them already with that bullet in that chamber.
Greg
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Post by ralphob on Feb 28, 2012 19:04:02 GMT -8
the gun was clean and I cleaned it again when I got it home and tried cycling the dummy rounds. Are you saying that I should set them back further then what works in the wilson case guage?
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Feb 28, 2012 20:20:28 GMT -8
the gun was clean and I cleaned it again when I got it home and tried cycling the dummy rounds. Are you saying that I should set them back further then what works in the wilson case guage? I would measure a FIRED case and set my dies up to move the shoulder back 0.003. Is the Wilson gauge a drop in chamber type? If so your chamber MAY be slightly smaller than the gauge size and would cause a binding as it loads. Your symptoms are classic to to tall a shoulder. Greg
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Post by Brandon Sneed on Feb 28, 2012 22:12:20 GMT -8
Was the BCG in battery when you pulled the trigger? I've had the same thing happen with two uppers recently. If its put of battery and pulls the trigger it's a royal pain to reset. That being said it sounds like its cycling and bouncing off the round and not locking in the extractor.
Where us your bolt/carrier from? Might look into changing out the extractor too.
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Post by ballardw on Feb 28, 2012 23:07:17 GMT -8
Something else to look at would be the magazine. The AR mag has protrusions inside that limit where the ogive on the bullet may/should be. If the bullets forward radius touches then the angle for feeding is likely to be off.
Your comments about the Matchkings working previously makes me wonder if you were using different magazines.
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Post by ralphob on Feb 29, 2012 3:59:07 GMT -8
Thanks for all of the responses. Yes I may have been using a different magazine, I cant remember when I got my new one. I will need to check that.
The wilson guage is a drop in so I will take your advice and used some fired cases as a benchmark to move the shoulders back.
My bolt carrier is a spikes tactical, the bolt came from BHW. Has around 100 rounds thru it.
Looks like I got a lot of things to try out this weekend.
Thanks!!!
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Post by ralphob on Mar 28, 2012 17:50:12 GMT -8
I am coming to wits end. I have tried just about everything that has been recommended to me and I am still getting jams. I have double and triple checked col's,cartridge Length and head spacing but I still get intermittent jams. Even bought new mags. I am getting some real terrible scratching on my brass, on all sides. thought It might be my feed ramps. tried to polish them but I either didn't do it right or it is having no effect. On top of it all it doesn't shoot as accurate as I think it should. My new BHW in 5.56 is a tack driver and performs flawlessly, this one is definitely not up to my standards. I am wondering if I have a bolt/chamber issue. This is one of those barrels that Black hole cant tell me for sure if its a type one or two. They sold me the type 2 bolt saying that would work for either one, not sure that was right or not. Not sure where to go next with this issue, don't have a gunsmith here in the keys that knows this caliber.
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Post by Master Yoda on Mar 28, 2012 20:07:25 GMT -8
Here's what you can do. If you send the upper to me I will fix it and return it to you at no cost. Thank you for choosing BHW products
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Post by ralphob on Mar 29, 2012 8:11:58 GMT -8
Totally AWESOME!!! Thanks so much willing to help me in such generous way! What a pleasure / honor it is to work with company that is willing to go beyond what is called for. Again my sincere thanks and I will get it shipped out to you next week.
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Post by joebana on Apr 4, 2012 16:04:42 GMT -8
Here's what you can do. If you send the upper to me I will fix it and return it to you at no cost. Thank you for choosing BHW products I purchased a 24" 264lbc barrel about a year ago. I completed my build this past fall and have run nearly 500 rds of wolf 120mpt ammo through it. I recently started reloading the spent brass with 123gr A-Max. I have found that I needed to seat the bullet to a COL of 2.22 or less to prevent the throat(?) from marking the ogive of the bullet. I dont have an issue with the loads i developed with the 2.22 seating depth, but I want to understand whats happening. Is it because the chamber is tighter that I have to seat down to 2.22? The wolf 120mpt was COL 2.22 and wasnt showing a ring around the bullet, nor was pulling the charging handle to extract requiring a lot of effort. Just looking for info. I am very happy with what I have and it shoots awesome out to 1000 yds +. I brag about BHW's technology to every person who tells me they want to build an AR15 and have sold one and a second is on his way. Joe
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Apr 4, 2012 18:06:46 GMT -8
Pretty much it comes down to the different shaped bullets. Different bullets with the same weight mus be loaded to different lengths to avoid the lands many times. Go look at a bunch of 150 grain 308 bullets for a quick visual. I load three different 39 grain pills in 20 caliber and they are all different COL to hit the lands. The Hornady tool is the best way to find this out safely before you pressure up a hot one stuck up in the barrel.
Greg
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Post by ralphob on May 9, 2012 3:21:43 GMT -8
UNBELIEVABLE service from Andy and the folks at Black Hole. Andy actually fixed my upper the same day that Fedex delivered it to them. Not only that, he actually called me, told me what he found and what he did to repair it. Now that's service! What a contrast to my buddies at the range who send their guns in for repairs and don't hear a thing for weeks and sometimes months. The best part of the deal is that I was able to shoot it yesterday and it now cycles perfectly and the accuracy has improved tremendously(only the 50yd range was open so I really can't provide a true range report, but 4 of my first 5 shots all went in the same hole)! Going on a Pig Hunt soon, can't wait to see how it performs on a hog!
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dr69er
Senior Member
Protect the US Consitution & the American Way.
Posts: 222
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Post by dr69er on May 11, 2012 10:39:23 GMT -8
Just another reason to choose BHW !
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Post by indigomatt on Jul 21, 2012 15:35:40 GMT -8
what was it? i am having the same symtoms with the 120 gr wolf mpt. Hornaday a-max cycles perfect but the wolf doesn't seem to set all the way in with the "large primers".
i can cycle a round through if i pull the extractor off the bolt, but otherwise it gets stuck in, like you are describing.
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