djmfl
Senior Member
Posts: 118
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Post by djmfl on May 19, 2012 9:49:56 GMT -8
Dies range from cheap (Lee) to expensive micro dies from Redding and others. You can't beat RCBS but I suggest getting the two die set and add a Lee crimp die. They are super easy to set up and use.
The difference in a two die and three die RIFLE is the crimp die. Some shooters never use a crimp die. Personally, if you are shooting the .223 in an AR, I'd never NOT use a crimp die. Crimping is super important for two primary reasons. 1. The bullet won't move in the case. 2. Consistent pressure when firing leads to much more accuracy.
If you are a tight group shooter or competitor use a crimp. Otherwise it might no matter that much.
For the 9mm you MUST get the three die set. One die resizes the case. The second die bells the case slightly. The third is the bullet seat die that also has a crimping function. Remember, the 9mm and all other rimless cartridges use the case and not the shoulder for head space. Don't crimp it too much.
When crimping your rifle case....just kiss the brass. It doesn't take much.
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Post by GLSHOOTER on May 19, 2012 11:12:22 GMT -8
Dies range from cheap (Lee) to expensive micro dies from Redding and others. You can't beat RCBS but I suggest getting the two die set and add a Lee crimp die. They are super easy to set up and use. The difference in a two die and three die RIFLE is the crimp die. Some shooters never use a crimp die. Personally, if you are shooting the .223 in an AR, I'd never NOT use a crimp die. Crimping is super important for two primary reasons. 1. The bullet won't move in the case. 2. Consistent pressure when firing leads to much more accuracy. If you are a tight group shooter or competitor use a crimp. Otherwise it might no matter that much. For the 9mm you MUST get the three die set. One die resizes the case. The second die bells the case slightly. The third is the bullet seat die that also has a crimping function. Remember, the 9mm and all other rimless cartridges use the case and not the shoulder for head space. Don't crimp it too much. When crimping your rifle case....just kiss the brass. It doesn't take much. Good advice on the 9 MM but I will have to disagree with you on the 223. A crimp is not needed IF you have proper neck tension on the bullet and IF you have a rifle/magazine combination that is not slamming the noses into the feed ramp as in very short COL rounds. Most accuracy shooters with the AR don't crimp period. We rely on the consistent neck thickness and tension to make it consistent in the cartridge. Crimping a round can be all well and good provided that the crimp is not excessive and overly hard. It also requires that all cases be trimmed pretty close to the same length and also that you have a run of quality bullets where in the cannelure is consistent in its' placement upon seating. Also most 223 shooters going for the bug hole club are using non-cannelure bullets and have found that while you can crimp them lightly you may run the risk of disrupting the jacket and adversely effecting the groupings. I, myself, use bushing style dies on my good, go for the Gold, ammunition. I can get more or less neck tension by selecting anyone of three or four applicable bushings, more than 0.004 neck tension is USUALLY not needed. Many times I'll use only 0.001 tension and I have encountered no issues when running that ammunition through my AR15 platform rifles. This would encompass rounds ranging from the 20 Tactical up to, and including the 25 WSSM. My 223 and 6X45 rifles have hauled in enough medals to make it seem like I am doing something right in that non-crimped venue. YMMV. Greg PS: My 2 die sets, non-bushing style, are RCBS, Hornady and some Reddings with the Hornady getting the nod 75%of the time currently. PPS: My 3 die pistol sets are RCBS,Hornady and the odd Dillon set with Hornady kicking RCBS to the curb in my reloading room about 15 years ago.
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Post by gunmutt on May 19, 2012 14:35:07 GMT -8
I have been looking at the rcbs x die set and the redding type s. Also I have been doing alot of research online but what are some good reading material. I hear the lyman and hornady have great books any others?
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Post by GLSHOOTER on May 19, 2012 16:18:01 GMT -8
I have been looking at the rcbs x die set and the redding type s. Also I have been doing alot of research online but what are some good reading material. I hear the lyman and hornady have great books any others? Lyman is the Bible for beginners, and experts too, and add the ABC's of Reloading, not the Lee book the other one from AMAZON. The X die deal makes you trim super short to start. I would rather leave everything normal and deal with a normal case growth. As cheap as 223 is getting 1000 pieces of brass and rotating them you won't do much trimming,Shoot 1000 measure, shoot again, measure and trim all of them with a POWER TRIMMER. Greg
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Post by gunmutt on May 20, 2012 0:29:16 GMT -8
so would you recommend the redding type s?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2012 4:41:15 GMT -8
S dies are a great tool. You need to ask yourself what are my intentions. If you are after cost savings and and reasonably accurate ammunition, you can do that with a set of standard dies. Hornady makes a good set for around $35.00 The Hornady seating die is one of the best out there. The size die also comes with a tapered expander ball. This is another plus if you have any damaged case mouths from hitting the brass deflector.
S dies are twice the price, just for the size die. Then you have the bushings. They run $12.00 and up. After you have acquired several bushings, there is still the seater die. Those are the same way. The sky is the limit as far as options and price.
If you intend on doing any wildcats based off of the parent case, in a simple neck up or neck down The S dies are worth there weight in gold.
Again it all comes down to what are your intentions.
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Post by chinaheart on May 25, 2012 0:59:56 GMT -8
Lyman is the Bible for beginners, and experts too, and add the ABC's of Reloading, not the Lee book the other one from AMAZON. Lol. Those were the first 2 books I bought when I first started reloading. I've collected a few more books over the last few years, but when I need a reference, I go for the Lyman first.
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