Factory Hornady cases swelling ***update***

[gmm]

I bought a never fired 22.5" Black Hole Weaponry barrel in 264lbc from someone a couple months ago and finally got it running last week. I bought 40 rounds of 123gr amax loads just to get an idea for reloading. I fired 5 of them and I had the rifle sighted in. Started break in as described on this site, but only shot 20 rounds.

I went home to start on a couple of loads and the problem started. When resizing with RCBS small base dies, some of my brass came out like belted magnums, and some sized perfectly. I checked the inside of the cases for sign of head seperation, but could not see for feel anything with a paper clip. I ended up cutting the worst one and checking it real good, and the extra brass was from the outside. So I checked the brass in the chamber and it would stick. Measurement aroung the "belted" area is .450" to .455".

I ended up reloading the good cases with 26gr and 26.5gr of h335 and topped it with 123gr amaxes. Went and grouped and ran chrono. Speeds were about what I thought they would be comparing to hodgdens load data. When I got home I trimmed and resized, and some of these had the same problem. Some of them the 26gr and some the 26.5gr of H335.

I have rechecked head space, and it is good. Measured distance to lands and I was good there. Thought it may have been over pressure, but speed and other pressure signs saying I am not. Looked for this issue all over the internet and I have not seen where anyone has come to a conclusion on this. Some are saying soft brass, some are saying gas system too fast, but no where have I seen where someone had a definate answer.

Hoping the guys on here have run into this and have an answer to it. Im kind of lost on this, I have never had any cartridge do this to me.

[Deleted]

Jun 11, 2012 19:33:59 GMT -8 gmm said:

I bought a never fired 22.5" Black Hole Weaponry barrel in 264lbc from someone a couple months ago and finally got it running last week. I bought 40 rounds of 123gr amax loads just to get an idea for reloading. I fired 5 of them and I had the rifle sighted in. Started break in as described on this site, but only shot 20 rounds.

I went home to start on a couple of loads and the problem started. When resizing with RCBS small base dies, some of my brass came out like belted magnums, and some sized perfectly. I checked the inside of the cases for sign of head seperation, but could not see for feel anything with a paper clip. I ended up cutting the worst one and checking it real good, and the extra brass was from the outside. So I checked the brass in the chamber and it would stick. Measurement aroung the "belted" area is .450" to .455".

I ended up reloading the good cases with 26gr and 26.5gr of h335 and topped it with 123gr amaxes. Went and grouped and ran chrono. Speeds were about what I thought they would be comparing to hodgdens load data. When I got home I trimmed and resized, and some of these had the same problem. Some of them the 26gr and some the 26.5gr of H335.

I have rechecked head space, and it is good. Measured distance to lands and I was good there. Thought it may have been over pressure, but speed and other pressure signs saying I am not. Looked for this issue all over the internet and I have not seen where anyone has come to a conclusion on this. Some are saying soft brass, some are saying gas system too fast, but no where have I seen where someone had a definate answer.

Hoping the guys on here have run into this and have an answer to it. Im kind of lost on this, I have never had any cartridge do this to me.

It sounds like you have 3 different issues going on here.
First there is no need for a small base size die. All it will do is overwork your brass.

Hornady brass is softer than Lapua. I ran into this problem with a 243 LBC. I changed to Lapua and the problem went away.

I would recommend the use of an adjustable gas block. Not only can you tune the cycle speed, you can time the opening of the bolt. I would bet you have shinny marks on the base of the cases. This is caused from wiping not over pressure. The Grendel case is famous for this. With an adjustable gas block you can tune this problem can be eliminated.

I hope this helps it's just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions

[gmm]

Is there any brand of adjustable gas block that you recommend over the others. I have never used one and I would appreciate any info on it.

Thank you

[Deleted]

I use Kies on a .750 They are reasonably priced and do the same job as the more expensive brands. If it is for a barrel with a .936 your choices are a few less and more expensive. JP is the one I use on them.

Adjust it so your rifle cycles with your lightest load. It's not going to throw brass all over when properly set. It should drop the cases about 2 feet out of the ejection port. Its that simple.

I use an adjustable gas block on almost all of the uppers I build for customers. They just eliminate a lot of potential problems. I feel they are money well spent.

[gmm]

Thank you for the help

[gmm]

Having more problems the more I shoot it. I have tried different brass, 3 different factory loads and started reloads over from bottom. I also have an adjustable gas block that I have turned gas all the way off and still having problems.

The new problem is that about 4 of 5 brass gets stuck in the chamber and the extractor slips off some and I have to use a cleaning rod to get it out. The last one I shot was a reload at the bottom of the chart for h335 and 123gr amax and I ended up having to remove the upper and pry it out. I ended up scuffing my upper a little at the ejection port. I had the gas shut off on this one, so it was not a gas issue.

I have ran it clean, ran it dirty, dry, and slinging oil, and it seems to just get worse. I am not shooting it anymore. I dont know how warranty will work since I bought it from someone on the internet (he seems to know his way around an ar and is a sponsor on predator masters).

This is the only build I have ever had any problems with, and I have put a few together. To me it almost seems like it may be a chamber issue, but I have not pulled it back apart yet to check. I have checked headspace and it is good.

With all of the rounds I have shot through it, they all swell right around the case head area to around .450" to .455" even with gas shut off.

I am at a loss. I am going to try to contact Black Hole tomorrow, and maybe figure something out. I just figured I would post here and possibly get a response today since they are probably closed for the 4th.

I really want to get this thing running right. It is extremely accurate and would hate to have to scrap it and start over.

Thanks

[Deleted]

Jul 4, 2012 10:39:59 GMT -8 gmm said:

Having more problems the more I shoot it. I have tried different brass, 3 different factory loads and started reloads over from bottom. I also have an adjustable gas block that I have turned gas all the way off and still having problems.

The new problem is that about 4 of 5 brass gets stuck in the chamber and the extractor slips off some and I have to use a cleaning rod to get it out. The last one I shot was a reload at the bottom of the chart for h335 and 123gr amax and I ended up having to remove the upper and pry it out. I ended up scuffing my upper a little at the ejection port. I had the gas shut off on this one, so it was not a gas issue.

I have ran it clean, ran it dirty, dry, and slinging oil, and it seems to just get worse. I am not shooting it anymore. I dont know how warranty will work since I bought it from someone on the internet (he seems to know his way around an ar and is a sponsor on predator masters).

This is the only build I have ever had any problems with, and I have put a few together. To me it almost seems like it may be a chamber issue, but I have not pulled it back apart yet to check. I have checked headspace and it is good.

With all of the rounds I have shot through it, they all swell right around the case head area to around .445" to .450" even with gas shut off.

I am at a loss. I am going to try to contact Black Hole tomorrow, and maybe figure something out. I just figured I would post here and possibly get a response today since they are probably closed for the 4th.

I really want to get this thing running right. It is extremely accurate and would hate to have to scrap it and start over.

Thanks

Maybe this will help.
How far are you moving your shoulder back when you are resizing your brass? This sounds like a case of excessive headspace after resizing. If this upper came from another source which chamber does it have? Measure the inside of your bolt to see which bolt you have Grendel or 7.62X39.

Black Hole will be closed until Monday July the 9th. I would be glad to try and help you until then. If you want to give me a call this would be easyer on the phone.

Ritch 435-229-2121

[gmm]

Latest on build: BHW ended up replacing barrel. I have ran about 100rds through the new one once I got the type 2 bolt.

Just as accurate as the first one without any problems except for having to remove the oring under the extractor. It was having some issues going over the case. After the oring was removed I have not had any type of problem what so ever. Cases are in good shape now and are not getting the "belted mag" look to them anymore with the same dies.

It runs any load I throw at it now.

I got my upper back just in time for some load testing, and my daughter may end up using this for her first deer hunt next week.

I want to say thanks to Black Hole Weaponry for great customer service.

[gmm]

Oh, and thank you Ritch for helping me too.

[GLSHOOTER]

Thanks for the update. I'm glad it was handled in a positive manner. Lets see the deer it catches.

Greg