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Post by theshotty on Jul 12, 2012 22:14:01 GMT -8
Alright after having read a number of posts from Greg (glshooter) from other boards I was set on building a 6x45 because I didn't realise that bhw had a version of the 6x6.8 on the way and I am not interested in the dti or woa versions. I want to have a lighter platform to use for <300 yard deer and general coyote gun. I also want to use this to train my wife (5'6" 120lbs) and new/young shooters with and hunt with. I'm stuck between a 16" and 18" barrels as weight is a concern, I don't think fluting will remove enough weight on the 18 so I'm really leaning on a 16". I reload, I have tons of .223 brass from a rifle I no longer have and I have a .260 for longer range horse power. With this all in mind, ( this question is geared towards Greg and the experience he has in these two rounds but open to others with experience to share.). Is there enough extra oomph from the 6x6.8 to make the extra expense worth it? About how much more per round does it cost? I have some pmags already as well as a RRA semi auto bcg so I would also need to figure in a new bolt and mags. I do like the idea of a little more power but it seems like the better gains will be in barrels of >20" and I'm not willing to go that length. Any way thanks in advanced. - Jake
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jul 13, 2012 4:12:34 GMT -8
I'm heading out for a practice match this AM. If Ritch doesn't chime in I'll respond later. No that's not right..........I'll respond even if he does!!!  Greg |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2012 4:43:21 GMT -8
Alright after having read a number of posts from Greg (glshooter) from other boards I was set on building a 6x45 because I didn't realise that bhw had a version of the 6x6.8 on the way and I am not interested in the dti or woa versions. I want to have a lighter platform to use for <300 yard deer and general coyote gun. I also want to use this to train my wife (5'6" 120lbs) and new/young shooters with and hunt with. I'm stuck between a 16" and 18" barrels as weight is a concern, I don't think fluting will remove enough weight on the 18 so I'm really leaning on a 16". I reload, I have tons of .223 brass from a rifle I no longer have and I have a .260 for longer range horse power. With this all in mind, ( this question is geared towards Greg and the experience he has in these two rounds but open to others with experience to share.). Is there enough extra oomph from the 6x6.8 to make the extra expense worth it? About how much more per round does it cost? I have some pmags already as well as a RRA semi auto bcg so I would also need to figure in a new bolt and mags. I do like the idea of a little more power but it seems like the better gains will be in barrels of >20" and I'm not willing to go that length. Any way thanks in advanced. - Jake I have not shot the 6X45 or the 6X68 out of a 16 inch barrel. I have shot both with an 18 inch barrel. You will be giving up roughly 150-175 FPS out of a 6X45 with 58 gr. bullets. The same can be said with the 87 gr. bullets. These are not exact numbers as I am at work typing this and don't have my load notes with me. 6X45 58 gr. Vmax 3180 FPS 6X45 87 gr. Vmax 2750 FPS 6X68 58 gr. Vmax 3350 FPS 6X68 87 gr. Vmax 2925 FPS Of course the spreads in velocity will get larger as barrel length increases. You can simply go faster with more powder and a longer barrel. |
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jul 13, 2012 13:25:20 GMT -8
[/quote]
I have not shot the 6X45 or the 6X68 out of a 16 inch barrel. I have shot both with an 18 inch barrel.
You will be giving up roughly 150-175 FPS out of a 6X45 with 58 gr. bullets. The same can be said with the 87 gr. bullets. These are not exact numbers as I am at work typing this and don't have my load notes with me.
6X45 58 gr. Vmax 3180 FPS
6X45 87 gr. Vmax 2750 FPS
6X68 58 gr. Vmax 3350 FPS
6X68 87 gr. Vmax 2925 FPS
Of course the spreads in velocity will get larger as barrel length increases. You can simply go faster with more powder and a longer barrel. [/quote]
Se I told you Ritch would come by!!
His figures are very good from memory. They support my experience with the two rounds though mine were with a 20" version on both.
I am shooting 24" 6X45 and 6X68's at this time as he said the difference is about 150-175 with the long barrel vs the shorter tubes.
I'm hitting 3000-3100, top load is HOT, with the 87's in a 6X45. Add another 150 FPS to that with the 6X68 and you have it.
The light 58's can really scream in the 6X68 and are nor pedestrian buy any means in the 6X45. Once again add in the extra 150-200 and you have it nailed with the 24" velocities.
Given an 18" tube and the deer mix I would go with the big boy. The 6X45 can do it but a little extra HP is a great idea in the smaller 6 MM's like these.
I do love the free 223 brass but I have seven loadings on my current starter 6X68 cases and they are going strong. I heard from another source of a fellow that has over 20 in some of his 6X68's,. At that point case cost is a moot point, IMHO.
Keep us posted.
Greg
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Post by theshotty on Jul 13, 2012 13:29:05 GMT -8
Any guess as to how much more per shot your 6x68 is $ wise? What is your purpose for there rifles and do you have a preference?
*edit* I missed your post Greg, set of questions is more to Richs' comments.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2012 14:18:30 GMT -8
Any guess as to how much more per shot your 6x68 is $ wise? What is your purpose for there rifles and do you have a preference? *edit* I missed your post Greg, set of questions is more to Richs' comments. Cost per shot 6X45 verses 6X68 is a very small increase. Powder cost is the only increase for components when going to the 6X68. You will use about 4-5 grains more powder. It will cost you about 3 cents more per shot for powder. Brass is the only added expense. .50 cents for 6.8 or .30-35 for 223 brass. Like Greg said brass has been lasting almost forever. So in my opinion the 6X68 is worth the added expense per round. The total cost of a loaded round if you load it will be about 32 cents not counting brass. A 6X45 will be about 29 cents. |
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jul 13, 2012 14:21:10 GMT -8
Any guess as to how much more per shot your 6x68 is $ wise? What is your purpose for there rifles and do you have a preference? *edit* I missed your post Greg, set of questions is more to Richs' comments. Well we both shoot and load for it so here it goes. Bullets are the same price, obviously, primers - same same, Powder charge on the 6X45 runs about 25-28 grains or so. Powders on the 6X68 run about 27-30 grains or so. So cost per round on powder is $0.0714 each at 25 grains. At 30 grains for the 6X68 it amounts to $0.0858 each. Call it $0.015 difference. Brass, new, 223 , Winchester, is $24.00/100 or so. Brass, new Silver State, $51.95/100. So the first firing is about $0.28 more on the 6.8 so basically $0.30 more for the 6X68. We are getting super life on the 6X68. 200 cases would last you well over 2,000 shots. Of course you need bushing FL dies for the 6X68 and that will run you about $75.00 or so with both bushings and you would need and a generic Hornady 6MM seating die for $15.00 A set of Hornady New Dimension Dies are retail about $90.00 a wash on that. So the first 100 rounds will cost you an extra $30.00 after that the cost is within about 0..02 to 0.03. Little variance in the big picture of things. I use the 6X45's on PD's/varmints and in various lengths matches from 20" 3 Gun to the 24" F-Class. I'll use the 6X68 for PD's/varmints in the 24" mode and will more than likely try it in 3 Gun. I might get a 20" for that too. Also the 6X68 will give me a bit longer flat trajectory for long range steel shooting things. If I ever get a deer tag here I will take the 6X68 given the choice. The 6X45 will do it but energy is energy and speed is speed. Ritch and I talk all the time and he has told me on a dozen occasions that the 6X68 is now his PRIMO coyote gun. The way he shoots there is no doubt that the song dogs in Utah are in deep do do!!  Greg |
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Post by theshotty on Jul 13, 2012 22:22:11 GMT -8
Well hmm, looks like I better start looking for a new bolt and mags....... In starting from scratch what would you gentleman recommend for mags, does brand of bolt matter? Thanks a ton for all the help so far!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2012 3:48:25 GMT -8
Well hmm, looks like I better start looking for a new bolt and mags....... In starting from scratch what would you gentleman recommend for mags, does brand of bolt matter? Thanks a ton for all the help so far! Magazines are easy to come by. C products from $15.00 to PRI for $40.00 are about the widest range. They both work well with the 6X68. We have not had any Mag problems that I know of with any of the brands out there. Any of the name brand bolts or BCG's will serve you well. I have used Stag, RRA and the last few came from RGUNS. I am impressed with there Nickel Boron coated parts. There are others out there that give you options. I tell people all the time, "build the most you can afford" you won't be sorry when you shoot it. |
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jul 14, 2012 5:43:00 GMT -8
Well hmm, looks like I better start looking for a new bolt and mags....... In starting from scratch what would you gentleman recommend for mags, does brand of bolt matter? Thanks a ton for all the help so far! Magazines are easy to come by. C products from $15.00 to PRI for $40.00 are about the widest range. They both work well with the 6X68. We have not had any Mag problems that I know of with any of the brands out there. Any of the name brand bolts or BCG's will serve you well. I have used Stag, RRA and the last few came from RGUNS. I am impressed with there Nickel Boron coated parts. There are others out there that give you options. I tell people all the time, "build the most you can afford" you won't be sorry when you shoot it. One think to cogitate is to buy 6.5 Grendel mags. They feed the 6X68 perfectly and you have a two'fer so when you go get that 243 LBC you really want you will be up one step already. Greg |
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Post by theshotty on Jul 14, 2012 15:53:08 GMT -8
Alright, rguns complete 6.8 bcg and coated mid length gas tube. Upper will be complete by the end of the week less a barrel and gas block which brings me to my next questions. What do you use for gas blocks with your rigs? Do I need to go adjustable or can I just do a regular lopro base block? Are the bhw barrels set up so the gas block can ne pinned? On barrel lengths, some of the barrels a marked for weight on the ordering screen but not enough to do a comparison. How much more would an 18 weigh over a 16" barrel? Also as I look, the 6x68 isn't on the list of options on the top left of the bhw website, is this available for order yet? Sorry for all the queations, I want this right the first time.
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jul 14, 2012 16:27:36 GMT -8
Alright, rguns complete 6.8 bcg and coated mid length gas tube. Upper will be complete by the end of the week less a barrel and gas block which brings me to my next questions. What do you use for gas blocks with your rigs? Do I need to go adjustable or can I just do a regular lopro base block? Are the bhw barrels set up so the gas block can ne pinned? On barrel lengths, some of the barrels a marked for weight on the ordering screen but not enough to do a comparison. How much more would an 18 weigh over a 16" barrel? Also as I look, the 6x68 isn't on the list of options on the top left of the bhw website, is this available for order yet? Sorry for all the queations, I want this right the first time. I have been using KIES and JB adjustables. It gives you more control over your loads IMHO. The KIES is pretty low. BHW barrels are not grooved to be pinned. Weight difference I would guess around 6-8 ounces at most. Negligible but I would not go shorter than 18" as the velocity loss is too much going to a 16". Don't rob yourself. 6X68 barrels alone will not be available for order until next month. Up until the end of the group buy only complete uppers with ammunition are being sold. Greg |
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Post by theshotty on Jul 15, 2012 11:50:04 GMT -8
I ordered a 6.8 barrel this morning so at least I'll have something to shoot while I wait and I cam accumulate brass in the mean time. As for mags I like the price of the cp mags but in my search for them I didn't see much for offerings. Midway had 25 round mags but I would like 10 round mags. The distributor lists them as back ordered and have seen some very negative comments about them since they were bought out last year. Have you guys had any issues?
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jul 15, 2012 13:16:43 GMT -8
I ordered a 6.8 barrel this morning so at least I'll have something to shoot while I wait and I cam accumulate brass in the mean time. As for mags I like the price of the cp mags but in my search for them I didn't see much for offerings. Midway had 25 round mags but I would like 10 round mags. The distributor lists them as back ordered and have seen some very negative comments about them since they were bought out last year. Have you guys had any issues? Look for ASC mags they make 10 rounders. Also J&G Gun Ranch in Prescott, AZ has some of the 10's last I herd. Remember that 6.5 GRENDEL magazines feed the 6.8 like a train too. Greg |
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