ken11b
Junior Member
Posts: 18
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Post by ken11b on Jul 19, 2015 18:32:20 GMT -8
I am looking at a 20" barrel for my first custom build. I have a few questions... Weight: What is the weight of the light profile vs standard profile? Fluting: any idea of practical weight savings from basic straight fluting, probably just forward of the gas block? Any heat dissipation advantages? Twist and Ammo: Given the additional velocity that is achieved with the Caudle rifling, will a 77gr OTM stabilize in a 1:8 20" barrel? Armalite tech note 110 notes that max weight for 1:7 is 77gr, 1:8 is 69gr and 1:9 is 65gr. They also state that " heavier projectiles will stabilize if: they are flat base, and/or --they are round nose, and/or --they are driven at muzzle velocities above 2800 fps, and/or --they are fired in temperate environmental conditions." Silver State Armory 77gr OTM is advertised at 2700fps mv from a 16" barrel; the 20" barrel should be good for maybe another 100FPS and I read elsewhere on this site that the Caudle rifling gives about 100+FPS over standard rifling... Any practical experience with 77gr from a 20" 1:8? I do use a few different weight ammo; 55gr M193, 62gr XM855, 62gr Fusion, SSA 77gr OTM. Velocity of standard ammo types: Do you have velocity information for any common ammo with a BHW 20" barrel, such as M193, XM855, Mk262 77gr OTM? Gas Block: this should be a simple set up, not breaking any new ground here. Would a fixed gas block be ok, or do you recommend an adjustable block? Brand/model advice? Thanks! Ken
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jul 20, 2015 6:43:47 GMT -8
Light weighs 2.70 Standard weighs 2.95
No appreciable difference in the fluting after the GB. Heat is pretty low out there. No real advantage.
The 1:8 will handle the 77's easily. I've shot the 77 Noslers in my 1:8. They work well for groups. It is our go to heavy bullet for Ritch and me.
My 22's are 24" and 16" I'll look at my records later and give you some numbers as I THINK I might have shot some factory. I never bother normally as I load 99% of what I use.
Gas block would be a BTE in my opinion. He is an Industry Partner here. Super product, super owner and made in America at a super price. I like adjustables as I always like options but on a 223 and standard non-adjustable will be GTG too.
Greg
I just checked. I have fired zero factory rounds through my 24" BHW 223. I did shoot some Winchester White Box 55 FMJ thorough my 16" BHW KTB barrel, 14 1'2" nominal tube length and got 3078.
That same ammo in a 26" Remington 700 ran 3484.
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ken11b
Junior Member
Posts: 18
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Post by ken11b on Jul 20, 2015 18:43:17 GMT -8
Hi Greg, thanks for the detailed reply. I appreciate the information. Your comment about fluting seems to imply that there might be some heat advantage to fluting before the gas block, yes? You also seem to run counter to the current AR forum dogma of gas blocks being pinned as the only "real way" of attachment. Do you use some type Loctite on the screws to keep them clamped or just torque them to an mfg's spec? So a 20" w/rifle length gas 5.56 and your standard .100" port should be a decent runner and not throw brass all over the place?
Thanks again for the info!
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jul 21, 2015 5:42:00 GMT -8
Hi Greg, thanks for the detailed reply. I appreciate the information. Your comment about fluting seems to imply that there might be some heat advantage to fluting before the gas block, yes? You also seem to run counter to the current AR forum dogma of gas blocks being pinned as the only "real way" of attachment. Do you use some type Loctite on the screws to keep them clamped or just torque them to an mfg's spec? So a 20" w/rifle length gas 5.56 and your standard .100" port should be a decent runner and not throw brass all over the place? Thanks again for the info! Oh my, you scratched an itch!! There are some slight advantage n cooling on a BULL barrel under the guards. Not much extra surface to be gained on the standards IMHO. Questions abound as to accuracy variation from the process. BHW doesn't hog theirs out and take there time not cutting huge amounts in one pass. This lowers stress somewhat and that is a GOOD thing. I shoot barrels with front/back flutes and many without. Mostly without. They all shot well but at my level I can't wring out the most of them like Ritch. He doesn't flute any of his on purpose on those he really wants to shoot hard. (RANT ON)That pinning crap is just that...crap. Walter Mitty shooters squeal and carry on about "life and death stake it all on my gun" scenarios. Truth be known about 75 % of those guys shoot less than 500 rounds a year. Of that 500 I would wager less than 50% are with their go to war guns. They squeal about the set screw/clamp ons causing stress when the set screws go up against the barrel or that the "squeeze" of the clamp on effects accuracy. Do the think drilling a groove in their and then pounding a pin into the barrel/block interface doesn't cause stress? I heard Cherry was the flavor-of -the-month for KoolAid because they don't make one BS flavored.(Remember these are MY opinions..not anyone else's here) I run over two dozen AR's with ZERO pinned GB's. I have had ZERO come loose. No Locktite on any. Realistically a clamp on might be superior to the set screw type but what is better than 100%. I've run 100& BTE blocks the past three year on all of my builds and JP or Keis before that. (RANT OFF)Brass ejection should be fine. It is a multiple factor deal of actual ammunition, buffer weight, buffer spring and ejector/extractor tensions and tuning. I don't car where the cases go as long a they go OUT. You can do some adjusting that will cause less wear and tear on the brass and increase reliability with handloads but if you shoot only factory and don't reload it can be ignored. Greg
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jul 21, 2015 11:16:46 GMT -8
That is all good info for me and sure makes a customized AR a lot easier. Thanks!
(Three posts on a new board and I got an admin to rant... Huh... That's a record for me! ) Actually it is just one of my pet peeves. Way to much of the "I hear, I think therefore it MUST BE" stuff on the net. Like bolt breakage on a 6.5 Grendel or 264 LBC until you have got to pull the trigger on one or the other or both cumulatively over 10,000+ times the "I Hear" doesn't fly. Guys repeat what they hear and never what they see. Many of them have never SEEN a 223 bolt break and to hear the BS Bonzo Net Commandos talk a 6.8 SPC NEVER breaks even though reports of three showed up within two weeks of each other on the net. Equipment usage by various individuals is subjective when you have a test study group of one and they also persist in spouting what they hear. Case in point, several years ago a fellow typed that the Tasco PD series of red dots were crap. I kind of pushed him and he finally admitted he had heard that and had never even looked through one. I, and about a dozen IPSC shooters in Oklahoma used, and still do, them religiously on our OPEN guns. Between the wife and I we have about 35,000 rounds under a pair of them and between my 'smith and the rest somewhere North of 250,000. Never broke one yet. That is good crap!! LOL The same fellow said his 'smith looked at a new unfired BHW barrel and it was "shot out". The 'smith had no idea what polygonal rifling looked like but by gosh and by dandy it was shot out!! I asked the young man to please have the 'smith call me. My phone is still not ringing..... If you notice my SIG line it tells it all from the perspective of the one gun user. The BEST is the one you have. Ever seen a guy go on the net and say , "Man I just dropped $2,500 for a piece of horsey hockey made by XXX" ? Of course these are the same guys whose every gun/barrel shoots sub-MOA "when I do my part". Oddly enough 99% of those NEVER post up a target. Almost a direct 1:1 correlation from some barrel users out there. They buy things for a pittance from a barrel orderer/dealer who won't even tell them who made the tube and then think they run with the big boys of performance. Sorry but this board posts up real world results and if it falls on its face it falls on its face and won't be sold long. So far everything produced is still being made....HMMM Greg PS: Oh yes, BTW the above is all me again. I'm usually much more mild mannered and haven't reached the calling someone a scum sucking pig yet so I think I'm OK....LOL PPS: The fellow mentioned above doesn't run his keyboard anymore. Apparently someone burned his feet off in the fire they were held to.
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ken11b
Junior Member
Posts: 18
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Post by ken11b on Jul 21, 2015 16:24:40 GMT -8
Thanks again for the honest answers. I asked the questions because I certainly don't believe most of what I read on the internet; I figure that a manufacturer who fires tens of thousands of rounds a year probably has some worthwhile information. The MOA bit is funny; Troy sent me a test target, nice 1" group marked at 100yds. Not sure I can do that, but I'm working on it. Alright, this site seems to revolve around posted targets, so I'll put some up; Below targets are from my Lamb at an indoor 25yd range, kind of dim, with iron sights and my old eyes. 1" at 25yds isn't the same as 1" at 100yds...
Seated, supported, taking my time...
Seated, supported, quick fire.
BTW, I was looking at BA barrels with their Hansen profile. The premise of the continuous taper makes sense to me, but the BHW Caudle rifling takes precedence in my (limited experience) mind. Add the shotpeen finish and availability of custom fluting, and BHW seems to be a much better choice.
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jul 21, 2015 19:53:23 GMT -8
Ask away and jump in with both feet. I'm not sure how much a taper helps but if it groups it groups. .
Old eyes do make a difference. Nothing wrong with those groups. We like groups because they do show some parameters of excellence. It shows the quality of the gun and the driver.
Greg
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ken11b
Junior Member
Posts: 18
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Post by ken11b on Jul 28, 2015 9:31:23 GMT -8
1: Ok, question about gas blocks; on a shot-peened barrel, it looks like the gas block area is left smooth so the block will seat. So basically, you just line up the ports with maybe a couple of pencil index marks and tighten the block sitting tight to the cut shoulder on the barrel, correct?
2: I just ordered a barrel, so get off the internets and get my barrel machined!
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jul 28, 2015 10:47:35 GMT -8
1: Ok, question about gas blocks; on a shot-peened barrel, it looks like the gas block area is left smooth so the block will seat. So basically, you just line up the ports with maybe a couple of pencil index marks and tighten the block sitting tight to the cut shoulder on the barrel, correct? 2: I just ordered a barrel, so get off the internets and get my barrel machined! No you don't put them on that way. ON BHW barrels there is a DIMPLE directly below the gas port. You just line up the rear screw on your GB with that dimple and tighten it down. You can do a BTE GB with your eyes closed doing it that way. Most GB manufacturers do this now. I don't work for BHW. They only check this area occasionally. Ritch and I handle 95% of the board traffic on three or four sites. Greg
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ken11b
Junior Member
Posts: 18
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Post by ken11b on Jul 28, 2015 12:19:04 GMT -8
Ah, sorry, got it, Thanks Greg! That installation sounds super easy.
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jul 28, 2015 15:39:45 GMT -8
Ah, sorry, got it, Thanks Greg! That installation sounds super easy. I learned quick on my first one!! LOL Greg
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ken11b
Junior Member
Posts: 18
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Post by ken11b on Sept 16, 2015 14:18:33 GMT -8
Alright, seven weeks after ordering, I still don't have my barrel... AGONY!!1! Well, that's ok, I don't have all my parts collected yet, so no problem... I did get my AeroPrecision upper this week...
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Sept 16, 2015 19:06:43 GMT -8
As soon as you get it order another one. You can't build just one. I know.
Greg
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