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Post by wilson1968 on Feb 29, 2016 13:56:20 GMT -8
ive been eyeballing getting an oal gauge. i know the sinclair tool gets alot of thumbs up on this forrum. my question is. is it really that much better than the hornady if you use a fire case. i was going to get a hornady gage tool and just drill and tap my cases to use on their tool. my other question is on the sinclair do you have to modify the case any to use the tool. any advice will be well appreciated as i just use a sharpie at the moment.
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Feb 29, 2016 14:26:34 GMT -8
ive been eyeballing getting an oal gauge. i know the sinclair tool gets alot of thumbs up on this forrum. my question is. is it really that much better than the hornady if you use a fire case. i was going to get a hornady gage tool and just drill and tap my cases to use on their tool. my other question is on the sinclair do you have to modify the case any to use the tool. any advice will be well appreciated as i just use a sharpie at the moment. The Hornady is usable but you noted you have to drill and tap. I've done a bunch of them and got tired of doing it. Also I have encountered some case necks that needed opening up to allow the bullet to slide freely. I feel the SINCLAIR is much faster for repeat readings. Sinclair requires no case modification. Greg |
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Post by ChiefPlumber on Mar 3, 2016 18:06:30 GMT -8
The Hornady is usable but you noted you have to drill and tap. I've done a bunch of them and got tired of doing it. Also I have encountered some case necks that needed opening up to allow the bullet to slide freely. I feel the SINCLAIR is much faster for repeat readings. Sinclair requires no case modification. Greg I've been looking at the Sinclair, as you have suggested. Seems a fairly simple gadget to make on one's own. Parts needed: 1 rod;stainless if you want to buy,or what's handy, or a cleaning rod(jointed from a standard field kit, maybe) 2 or 3 locking collars;2 if they have the offset nipple like Sinclair, but 3 flat ones of the same dimension will work 1 rod guide;buy it($10,Sinclair delrin) or make it from a cleaning guide, stopper, etc.; need a stop in place for consistent seating in the receiver. If you can find locking collars like Sinclair's, the nipple needs to be as long as the thickness of collar to provide for proper measuring to the outside edges of the collars. Remember the collar for the bullet-to-lands is butted up against the breach plug(inside of the collar); so, you must account for measuring to the outside edge of the collar with either the Sinclair style collar or a 3rd collar the same size as the others. If using 3 locking collars the procedure would be the same except for the case-to-chamber measurement. Assuming the flat locking collars are of the same dimension, slide the final two on the rod, rod in breach plug to the chambered case. Butt the two collars against the breach plug and lock the inner most collar(closest to the bullet-to-lands collar). No need to lock the other as you will remove it for your measurement. The significance of the 3rd collar is to provide the proper offset for the thickness of the first collar and allow you to measure to the outside of the two remaining collars. Add to this measurement the length of your bullet and you should get a cartridge OAL to the lands. Then, seat the bullet deeper according to how far off the lands you need and go have some fun. The Sinclair video didn't set well with me until a watched it a couple-few times and realized the significance of the collar nipple. Caveat Emptor: I have yet to test the above theory. It should work if I understand depth gauges and measuring. but, I'm not a machinist; nor, am I a qualified HolidayInn Express resident. If anyone should try this before I do, feedback is appreciated. Multiple measurements to get a consistent read. I've tried sized cartridges that allow the bullet to move and seat when chambered, but, a few times the bullet has stuck to the lands when the cartridge was removed from the chamber. Best, CP |
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Mar 3, 2016 18:20:16 GMT -8
There is a cheap knock off of the Sinclair out an about that is as you describe and you supply the rod. You only need the two collars to get a measure. You could use any cap that fits over the back of the upper with a hole centered in it and use it like the Sinclair nipple/insert.
The collar thickness is accounted for with the two collar set. It's like taking into account the zeroing of a calipers using the headspace gauge.
Greg
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Post by ChiefPlumber on Mar 3, 2016 19:58:57 GMT -8
There is a cheap knock off of the Sinclair out an about that is as you describe and you supply the rod. You only need the two collars to get a measure. You could use any cap that fits over the back of the upper with a hole centered in it and use it like the Sinclair nipple/insert. The collar thickness is accounted for with the two collar set. It's like taking into account the zeroing of a calipers using the headspace gauge. Greg Are you saying I don't need the 3rd collar...given I have flat collars and not collars with a neck like the Sinclair design? Best, CP ETA: I have collars like this...  |
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Mar 3, 2016 20:21:44 GMT -8
Let me get my set up out in the morning so I can play what if. But you can change those to work quite easily.
Greg
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Post by ChiefPlumber on Mar 3, 2016 20:43:00 GMT -8
That would be great, Greg. As I said, I can't claim that my 'theory' works...after all, it's still a theory...not proven.
Best,
CP
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Mar 3, 2016 20:51:24 GMT -8
That would be great, Greg. As I said, I can't claim that my 'theory' works...after all, it's still a theory...not proven. Best, CP Even if it doesn't work as you figure I bet you can easily recreate the Sinclair set up with a trip to ACE Hardware. This is just the kind if stuff going in my book. I had been thinking about it off and on for about six months now on a cheaper version like the HS gauges. Greg |
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Post by ChiefPlumber on Mar 3, 2016 21:16:22 GMT -8
Even if it doesn't work as you figure I bet you can easily recreate the Sinclair set up with a trip to ACE Hardware. This is just the kind if stuff going in my book. I had been thinking about it off and on for about six months now on a cheaper version like the HS gauges. Greg Right. On the Sinclair gauge, I think you'll see where I'm coming from if you point the 'neck' (I previously referred to as 'nipple', incorrectly) backward, away from the chamber. That neck accounts for moving your measure point on the first collar(bullet-to-lands) from the front to the back(being away from the chamber). Best, CP BTW, those shafts collars I have are about fifty cents a piece...maybe seventy, retail, for 1/4" bore. |
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Mar 4, 2016 5:37:40 GMT -8
I'll lok at it. I knew that even I could afford them at ACE. I'm thinking and that is BAD.  Greg |
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Mar 4, 2016 7:22:47 GMT -8
OK I looked at it and I'm not sure if there is magic in teh collars so lets try this.  The collar to the RIGHT flat base is run up against the upper insert that can be ANY height with the bullet in the chamber. Dump out bullet and insert FIRED case into chamber and put new collar on, the left one, run the narrow part down against your insert with the rod setting on the case head. Measure between OUTSIDE edges of the fat part. Add that number together and the bullet length and you have your CARTRIDGE LOADED OAL. NOT the measure to the ogive/barrel interface. You have to rverse engineer that so that you cans et your dies as bullet tips/bullet OAL vary as much as 0.010 in teh same box. The total collar is 0.5". The fat part and skinny are each 0.25. I would try your naked flat collars and see if you get a workable number. If it is too short, and I suspect it will be for some unreasonable gut feeling, take a 1/4" thick bushing smaller than the outside of your collar and super glue it to the bottom of the lower collar. Now measure it with that bushing against the insert when you are doing your cartridge measure. It'll cost you an extra $1.00 to find out. Report back and we will all learn. My spatial relationship skills suck so your test will help me on the visual process. Greg EDITED TO CLEAR UP A BIT OF MEASUREMENT REVERSAL!! |
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Post by ChiefPlumber on Mar 4, 2016 8:56:21 GMT -8
There you have it: "The fat part and skinny are each 0.25". So, the "skinny" part is the offset needed to get an accurate measure to the outside of the "fat" parts. I the right collar, you butted up against the "fat" part. On the left collar, you butted up against the "skinny" part. This is why I hypothesize the need for 3 "flat" collars(no neck for offset). The 3rd collar would compensate for the missing 0.25" neck that your tool has.
Anyhow, time permitting this weekend...I'll get something going and post it up.
ETA: Wish I still had my "tinker toys"...LOL
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Mar 4, 2016 9:11:02 GMT -8
There you have it: "The fat part and skinny are each 0.25". So, the "skinny" part is the offset needed to get an accurate measure to the outside of the "fat" parts. I the right collar, you butted up against the "fat" part. On the left collar, you butted up against the "skinny" part. This is why I hypothesize the need for 3 "flat" collars(no neck for offset). The 3rd collar would compensate for the missing 0.25" neck that your tool has. Anyhow, time permitting this weekend...I'll get something going and post it up. ETA: Wish I still had my "tinker toys"...LOL If you just glue another of the collets to the other one and use that as your 1/4" skinny offset you could measure outside of that to outside of the top one reversed and subtract 0.25 from your total and you would be GTG. Greg |
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Post by ChiefPlumber on Mar 4, 2016 9:32:28 GMT -8
There you have it: "The fat part and skinny are each 0.25". So, the "skinny" part is the offset needed to get an accurate measure to the outside of the "fat" parts. I the right collar, you butted up against the "fat" part. On the left collar, you butted up against the "skinny" part. This is why I hypothesize the need for 3 "flat" collars(no neck for offset). The 3rd collar would compensate for the missing 0.25" neck that your tool has. Anyhow, time permitting this weekend...I'll get something going and post it up. ETA: Wish I still had my "tinker toys"...LOL If you just glue another of the collets to the other one and use that as your 1/4" skinny offset you could measure outside of that to outside of the top one reversed and subtract 0.25 from your total and you would be GTG. Greg Or, just slide the third one off and not worry about subtraction. Maybe this will help visualize. The lower sketch is the flat collar idea. The orange collar would be removed before measuring.  |
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Mar 4, 2016 10:38:34 GMT -8
Yep that would work. Just a removable bushing. See you done saved your self several $$'s. It never dawned on me tha the bushings would be so normal in their sizes.
This will go in the book thanks.
Greg
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