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Post by weston on Feb 9, 2021 11:44:59 GMT -8
I'm looking at several barrels for 3 gun. The matches I've been to lately have been 85% or more bay shooting with a few longer shots here and there, typically out only to 200-400yds. What I'm looking for in a barrel is the ability to run it fast and be maneuverable yet not sacrifice the ability to take long shots, preferably not being forced to have the long shots be the first shots. So with that in mind, how much weight difference is there between a 16" light, slim, or standard and an 18" rifle length slim, light, spr, or standard, and given those weights, how much more accurate are the longer stiffer barrels? If I were to shoot a 30rd group with each, how much more are the thinner shorter barrels going to open up their groups as the barrel heats up? How much will I notice the length and weight differences compared to the accuracy differences?
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Feb 9, 2021 12:50:16 GMT -8
I'm looking at several barrels for 3 gun. The matches I've been to lately have been 85% or more bay shooting with a few longer shots here and there, typically out only to 200-400yds. What I'm looking for in a barrel is the ability to run it fast and be maneuverable yet not sacrifice the ability to take long shots, preferably not being forced to have the long shots be the first shots. So with that in mind, how much weight difference is there between a 16" light, slim, or standard and an 18" rifle length slim, light, spr, or standard, and given those weights, how much more accurate are the longer stiffer barrels? If I were to shoot a 30rd group with each, how much more are the thinner shorter barrels going to open up their groups as the barrel heats up? How much will I notice the length and weight differences compared to the accuracy differences? Barrel wights are listed in the FAQ area.. WEIGHTSHaving shot a short ton of 3GUN since the 80's I would say that any of these will carry the mail. I personally like a bit more weight out front and go with a standard. Accuracy is about the same on all of them with an edge to the heavier one if you really are going to rack off shots in 30 round sweeps. 3Gun targets are ludicrously large so even the lightweight tubes will meet the required accuracy level. When you have a barrel that will shoot 0.5 MOA to start it would really have to open up to miss an A-zone at 400 yards and an 8" plate at that distance wouldn't even make me blink as long as I knew my come ups or holdovers. I've shot light and bulls off the bench and the 0.5 is easily achieved with handloads for me. I would say that watching the lights getting heated up I might see and increase to MOA. I shoot a STANDARD at 500 in a 6X6.8 and have no trouble holding an MOA firing 20 shots in about ten minutes. At that range conditions are my limiting factor. Doing five shots in about a minute and half will find me with lots of 5 shot groups in the 0.5 MOA X-ring. How much you will notice the weight really is subjective. Light weight and heavy loaded rounds are totally different than a heavy gun and light loads from shot to shot. Your ability and how the gun is gasses and sprung are very important. My guns tend to the heavy side but I do run a dang near anorexic 6X45 when I get in some down and dirty 75 yards and under urban matches. The gun still works well at 300 or so but then I taught ling range shooting for many years for the Feds and to me distance just means you slow down a tad. For many it's a mind game and they expect to miss. I don't run in that lane. Good luck and lest us know what you pick. Here is my rifle I put together with an 18" honeycomb barrel. It has a red dot mounted over to the side. The muzzle device is a Miculek that I really like. This one shoots plenty well to take home the Gold.   Greg |
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Post by weston on Feb 11, 2021 15:18:05 GMT -8
I'm looking at several barrels for 3 gun. The matches I've been to lately have been 85% or more bay shooting with a few longer shots here and there, typically out only to 200-400yds. What I'm looking for in a barrel is the ability to run it fast and be maneuverable yet not sacrifice the ability to take long shots, preferably not being forced to have the long shots be the first shots. So with that in mind, how much weight difference is there between a 16" light, slim, or standard and an 18" rifle length slim, light, spr, or standard, and given those weights, how much more accurate are the longer stiffer barrels? If I were to shoot a 30rd group with each, how much more are the thinner shorter barrels going to open up their groups as the barrel heats up? How much will I notice the length and weight differences compared to the accuracy differences? Barrel wights are listed in the FAQ area.. WEIGHTSHaving shot a short ton of 3GUN since the 80's I would say that any of these will carry the mail. I personally like a bit more weight out front and go with a standard. Accuracy is about the same on all of them with an edge to the heavier one if you really are going to rack off shots in 30 round sweeps. 3Gun targets are ludicrously large so even the lightweight tubes will meet the required accuracy level. When you have a barrel that will shoot 0.5 MOA to start it would really have to open up to miss an A-zone at 400 yards and an 8" plate at that distance wouldn't even make me blink as long as I knew my come ups or holdovers. I've shot light and bulls off the bench and the 0.5 is easily achieved with handloads for me. I would say that watching the lights getting heated up I might see and increase to MOA. I shoot a STANDARD at 500 in a 6X6.8 and have no trouble holding an MOA firing 20 shots in about ten minutes. At that range conditions are my limiting factor. Doing five shots in about a minute and half will find me with lots of 5 shot groups in the 0.5 MOA X-ring. How much you will notice the weight really is subjective. Light weight and heavy loaded rounds are totally different than a heavy gun and light loads from shot to shot. Your ability and how the gun is gasses and sprung are very important. My guns tend to the heavy side but I do run a dang near anorexic 6X45 when I get in some down and dirty 75 yards and under urban matches. The gun still works well at 300 or so but then I taught ling range shooting for many years for the Feds and to me distance just means you slow down a tad. For many it's a mind game and they expect to miss. I don't run in that lane. Good luck and lest us know what you pick. Here is my rifle I put together with an 18" honeycomb barrel. It has a red dot mounted over to the side. The muzzle device is a Miculek that I really like. This one shoots plenty well to take home the Gold. Greg Awesome, thank you for the information. I'm thinking I'll probably go with a 16" standard, and run a midlength with an adjustable gas block to make up for sacrificing the rifle length gas system in exchange for a stiffer and more maneuverable barrel. I had been running a chrome lined hammer forged 16" FN pencil barrel that a friend gave me. The issue I was having with that is if the long shots are at the end of a bunch of fast close double taps I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn door. On paper the barrel was about 1 moa cold, but if I take 10 or so rapid shots then group it again immediately it opened up to nearly 4 moa, and shifted high right. So far it's only been an issue on one stage, but after having to take a miss on all 5 plates from 2 positions, I'm not exactly happy with it. Definitely time for an upgrade. I am however very happy with my ultradyne apollo, it's loud as heck but does an amazing job dropping the recoil to nearly none on an overgassed carbine pencil. That's a pretty sweet looking set up, what's the optic on it? The honeycomb looks awesome, does it reduce rigidity to any noticable degree and how much weight did it shave off? |
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Feb 12, 2021 9:50:22 GMT -8
The funny thing about this rifle is I got the barrel and I figured I'd just try out a 223 for 3Gun when I was gearing up again. I have shot a 6X45 since the early 90's and prefer it for heavy steel targets like we use to use and it does give an advantage on long range flash targets as when it hits there is no doubt of the target moving, I shoot 87's, but I fired I'd just do this one for fun as most of the local matches are less than 200 yards. I would say that as many holes/surfaces as this one has it would fight heat movement better than a solid barrel but I know intellectually that if a barrel like this is not heat relieved properly it could be a nightmare on shift in POI. I'm not concerned with a 4" plate at 200 with it but I have better tools for that if I'm going to a Police Games sniper match..lol This is the lowest budget gun for matches I have. Based on the the limited ranges I would use it in a grabbed a freebie Remington 4X12 non-AO scope of unknown heritage off one of my "package" SPS gun deals. The dot is a Millet that I picked up from my SORT/SWAT days. I changed out the lower to a collapsible set up and the muzzle device was changed to a linear/ported comp that was sent for me to evaluate for a fellow that worked out nicely as I had a different build that the Miclek could be used on with a different purpose.  Greg |
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