|
Post by thrillhouse700 on Nov 6, 2011 11:49:15 GMT -8
Im just copying and pasting my post from CGN to here in hopes someone could give me a direction to go.
So yesterday I went to Lytle Creek and took my Ma-Ten. I have not had any serious issues with it until now. First time out I had 2 misfeeds but only with 175grain, ran 120 rds of 155 grain no issues.
This time it was failing to eject completely almost every time. Tried 2 diff mags, and 3 diff types of ammo and it failed with all. Basically it is pulling the spent cartridge out of the chamber but it wont eject out the side it just places it gently on top of the next live round. So the bolt comes back forward and jams the spent cartridge into the roof of the upper, or tries to feed both spent and live into the chamber.
So far I have ruled out, Ammo, Mags, I checked the gas tube and key carrier and they are ok and the bolt locks back every time. Function tested the lower and checked for loose "anything." Both ejector and extractor springs have tension. Gun has about 300 rds through it. Bought the bolt and barrel from blackhole weaponry and they were head spaced before they were sent out. Any ideas?
Any issues for this with other black hole set ups?
Gun has been thoroughly cleaned after the first time I used it. Lubed very well, and is basically a bench queen.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2011 11:57:33 GMT -8
Have you checked the gas block to make sure it hasn't moved a little?
|
|
|
Post by GLSHOOTER on Nov 6, 2011 12:19:27 GMT -8
Have you checked the gas block to make sure it hasn't moved a little? I agree it sounds exactly like a gas porting issue. Quick way to check is will the bolt fire a single round and lock the bolt back on an empty mag? I bet a lunch that it wont. Greg
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2011 15:44:30 GMT -8
I agree with the above. If you pull the charging handle back and ejects fine you need to look for reasons why the system might be shortstroking.
A) The first and more obvious the system is under-gassed. This can be due to either a gas block that has moved, any obstruction for any reason or simply you are using some ammunition that doesn't produce enough pressure.
B) If the system doesn't eject the brass properly when you pull the charging handle back then you have an ejector problem. Need to take out the bolt and make sure the extractor and ejector have proper tension and work well. If anything brakes here then will cause problems. Breakages are not common with properly gassed ARs and specially 308 bolts.
C) If you have any obstructions in the buffer tube this can cause problems too. I have seen one system from a guy that was having problem and had installed one of those soft rubber recoil buffers that literally came apart and all the debris from the rubber material were obstructing and slowing down the whole buffer and therefore the system was short-stroking.
A properly gassed AR should be throwing the brass at about 30 to 40 degrees back and 40-50 degrees high.
I hope this helps.
|
|
|
Post by thrillhouse700 on Nov 6, 2011 16:06:22 GMT -8
this actually helps a lot. I will go back through and check it all out again. Thanks guys!! I checked the tube and carrier to see if they still aligned properly but did not even think of the gas block. Unfortunately I did not check to see if it was locking the bolt back on single shot. I think it was because my buddy was shooting it as a single shot at the end of the day and did not mention.
|
|
|
Post by thrillhouse700 on Nov 8, 2011 10:12:49 GMT -8
Ok so I asked my buddy who was shooting it at the end of the day and he said it was locking back every shot because he was feeding single rounds every time. Should I still be looking at the gas system?
|
|
|
Post by rswarden on Nov 8, 2011 12:16:08 GMT -8
If its locking back you probably dont have an under gassed gun. You should check the bolt. The ejector (5) might be stuck, in need of some lube, or the spring (6) is faulty. These guys here know a lot more then I do, but this is where I would look next.
|
|
|
Post by Brandon Sneed on Nov 8, 2011 15:10:32 GMT -8
If its locking back you probably dont have an under gassed gun. You should check the bolt. The ejector (5) might be stuck, in need of some lube, or the spring (6) is faulty. These guys here know a lot more then I do, but this is where I would look next. I was going to mention that as well but wanted him to verify the locking back on empty mag. May be an extractor spring issue.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2011 16:51:56 GMT -8
No. I see now. if you have an empty magazine it will lock open. That is what the system is supposed to do. After that one single round (last one) is gone the follower will push the bolt catch and now you are locked.
Try this..
- Engage the safey on. - Load the single round in the magazine. - Insert the magazine in the rifle. Make sure it locks. - When ready and pointing down range in a safely manner charge the rifle. - Remove the magazine. Just let it drop. - Aim and get ready to shoot. - Remove your safety. - Take the shot.
If you do not have a magazine, the case is ejected and you end up with an open action then you have a problem. Otherwise this is the explanation to your issue.
Makes sense? I hope this helps.
|
|
|
Post by thrillhouse700 on Nov 13, 2011 15:35:05 GMT -8
It does not hold open on the last shot if there is no magazine.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2011 17:46:01 GMT -8
That's what I thought. Everything is doing what is supposed to. Now you understand the "issue" you were having right?. The last round - lock bolt open is a feature to provide an advantage and speedy reload. Let me know if you have any other issues or questions. Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by thrillhouse700 on Nov 13, 2011 19:19:10 GMT -8
no no, I knew that. My issue is that with a magazine in it extracts the spent casing but does not eject it. The spent casing falls on top of the next live round then when the bolt comes back forward it trys to feed both spent and live round in at the same time.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2011 19:43:40 GMT -8
I see. what hapens if you put an empty case in the chamber and do this charging the handle slowly? When you get all the way back does it extract the spent case? Once is passes the point it is out the chamber and ejection port the ejector should trow it out. Don't do this with live ammo in the mag. only dummy rounds ok?
Is it a carbine or a full size.? Do you have a possibility to make a picture that includes the buffer, carrier and bolt? What type of gas block do you use? Is the gas block well installed, the gas tube clean and snug and you do not see evidence of gas escaping (loss of pressure)?
My take is your system is undergassed and shortstroking.
|
|
|
Post by Master Yoda on Nov 19, 2011 21:47:06 GMT -8
Im just copying and pasting my post from CGN to here in hopes someone could give me a direction to go. So yesterday I went to Lytle Creek and took my Ma-Ten. I have not had any serious issues with it until now. First time out I had 2 misfeeds but only with 175grain, ran 120 rds of 155 grain no issues. This time it was failing to eject completely almost every time. Tried 2 diff mags, and 3 diff types of ammo and it failed with all. Basically it is pulling the spent cartridge out of the chamber but it wont eject out the side it just places it gently on top of the next live round. So the bolt comes back forward and jams the spent cartridge into the roof of the upper, or tries to feed both spent and live into the chamber. So far I have ruled out, Ammo, Mags, I checked the gas tube and key carrier and they are ok and the bolt locks back every time. Function tested the lower and checked for loose "anything." Both ejector and extractor springs have tension. Gun has about 300 rds through it. Bought the bolt and barrel from blackhole weaponry and they were head spaced before they were sent out. Any ideas? Any issues for this with other black hole set ups? Gun has been thoroughly cleaned after the first time I used it. Lubed very well, and is basically a bench queen. Exchange the extractor
|
|
|
Post by thrillhouse700 on Dec 27, 2011 11:42:44 GMT -8
I see. what hapens if you put an empty case in the chamber and do this charging the handle slowly? When you get all the way back does it extract the spent case? Once is passes the point it is out the chamber and ejection port the ejector should trow it out. Don't do this with live ammo in the mag. only dummy rounds ok? Is it a carbine or a full size.? Do you have a possibility to make a picture that includes the buffer, carrier and bolt? What type of gas block do you use? Is the gas block well installed, the gas tube clean and snug and you do not see evidence of gas escaping (loss of pressure)? My take is your system is undergassed and shortstroking. Sorry for the long reply lots of house work and the holidays. when I extract by pulling the charging handle slowly it sometimes pops out of the ejection port but not very far and sometimes it just lets go and falls into the mag well. Gas block is a troy low profile, gas tube is clean and action locks back every time, no signs of gas loss. I can take a picture but need to borrow a camera.
|
|