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Post by jamesg651 on Jun 12, 2012 10:51:55 GMT -8
when resizing the 6.5 grendel brass with a 6 ppc die it is suggested to keep the die .070 away from the shellholder right? What is the best way to do this? Could you use feeler gauges between the die and shellholder? Just wonderin what you guys use......
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jun 12, 2012 11:06:22 GMT -8
when resizing the 6.5 grendel brass with a 6 ppc die it is suggested to keep the die .070 away from the shellholder right? What is the best way to do this? Could you use feeler gauges between the die and shellholder? Just wonderin what you guys use...... The theory is sound but the practice is not. Shell holders are different heights and that is what messes you up. You have to move the shoulder back between 0.003 and 0.004 so where that is on YOUR chamber also makes a difference in conjunction with the various shell holders. The hot ticket is a Hornady/Stoney Point head space gauge, .350, to set your shoulder movement up. If you don't have that then size a case lightly and as you size it more drop it in the chamber and let the bolt go home with GRAVITY ONLY. It will snick in place when you have enough until you get the gauge. You can also make a gauge with a fired case that will go over the 6.5 neck and use that as a reference piece for shoulder movement. (The working mans' Stoney Point!!) Greg
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2012 11:12:23 GMT -8
when resizing the 6.5 grendel brass with a 6 ppc die it is suggested to keep the die .070 away from the shellholder right? What is the best way to do this? Could you use feeler gauges between the die and shellholder? Just wonderin what you guys use...... .070 is just a generalized length. The best way is size a case is through trial and error until it will fit the chamber. Then load and fire it. Now you have a piece of brass from your chamber, use a comparator and measure where the shoulder is. Bump your shoulder back .004 and your die is set. You use the same setting to make brass and to reload your fired brass
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Post by Brandon Sneed on Jun 16, 2012 21:12:29 GMT -8
Something else to ask.... I get these questions often, so I posted them here for all of us to see in one spot:
1. In reloading for 243lbc, what brass is good to use? Hornady? What kind of life can we get out of Hornady once fired brass? Lapua? What is expected in life expectancy here, and is it worth just using Lapua instead of Hornady?
2. Straight forward list of components needed for reloading: Dies, Case Length Gauge?
3. Powder that is ideal? IMR 8208? Any others?
4. Range of projectiles that we should stick to with the current twist offered by BHW?
5. Ideal barrel lengths (at this time).
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aftcg
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Post by aftcg on Jun 16, 2012 23:56:46 GMT -8
I'd like to add to this thread for purpose on continuity because I have just started shooting my .243 lbc and would like to collaborate with anyone here who is loading for this cartridge. On brass, I got a pretty good deal going through Alexander Arms (I understand they have Lapua make their brass) and at the same time ordered a 10 round magazine from them. At the time I ordered none of my usual sources had any brand in stock, so it really made my choice easy. I fell into the idea of using a feeler gauge too. Heck seemed like a great idea at the time, right? Well the first brass I sized this way did fit the gun, but it seemed a bit stiff. For that reason I only loaded 15 rounds and took them to the range for a function check. Today I resized the 15 rounds I used and they would not go into battery unless single fed and dropping the bolt (feeding from the magazine wouldn't seat fully). Now that I've read this I'm a little embarrassed, but can see that gravity dropping the bolt on a sized case would get you where you need and then bump from there ( ). So with that out of the way now I have to work up a load. I have a great selection of powders on my shelf and plenty of 6mm bullets. I decided to try a fresh box of 87 grain Vmax. I saw on the 6mm AR page the recommendation of 8208 which I don't have, but it indicated I should have luck with the 87 Vmax and H335. I pulled load data out of my Sierra manual for 6ppc and started quite low. My very first group was a less than stellar 3.05" at 100 yards, and as I moved up my brief ladder I got 1.45" still without pressure signs. I didn't build this gun for 1.45" groups. Heck I can get that out of most any rack grade AR in 5.56. Today I moved up the ladder some more (I'm skipping powder quantities here but it's within limits on the sierra page for 6ppc) I really didn't get much better than the 1.45" I did try an wild hair idea with 70 grain Sierra Blitzking and managed just over an inch. Still no "bug hole" but the 70 Blitzking has always performed well for me and has been my benchmark bullet for judging my .243 bolt rifles. I had honestly never used H335 before but I had some and it was listed as a "good choice". The jury is out for me but I don't want to change too many variables at a time. I'm going to reset my dies using the method described here and work a load for the 70gr Sierra. I sure hope I can get groups to improve a bunch from where I'm at now.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2012 5:05:08 GMT -8
Something else to ask.... I get these questions often, so I posted them here for all of us to see in one spot: 1. In reloading for 243BC, what brass is good to use? Horned? What kind of life can we get out of Horned once fired brass? Lap? What is expected in life expectancy here, and is it worth just using Lap instead of Horned? 2. Straight forward list of components needed for reloading: Dies, Case Length Gage? 3. Powder that is ideal? MR 8208? Any others? 4. Range of projectiles that we should stick to with the current twist offered by BOW? 5. Ideal barrel lengths (at this time). #1 Recommended brass is Lapua or Alexander Arms. Hornady 's necks are to thick and require turning. AA brass is also the least expensive. #2 We are using Hornady 6PPC dies off the shelf. You could also use a Redding full length S die in 6.5 Grendel. To seat with we are using a Hornady 6mm seating die. ( All Hornady 6mm dies are the same ) As for a case length Gage there are none This is a wildcat cartridge. You could make one, but none are commerically available. #3 8208 4895 R15 Have all worked. #4 55grain Nosler to 95 grain VLD with the currant twist rates available. #5 As far as barrel length, below 20" is not advisable. Velocity loss is more than acceptable. 24" barrels and light bullets will run at 22-250 velocity.
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jun 17, 2012 10:51:30 GMT -8
Get the Hornady Head space set up. You need the .350 bushing for the 6 PPC/Grendel family.
Quick, easy, repeatable and if you buy the bullet comparator parts finding the lands measurement is very quick too.
Greg
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Post by biggdawg on Jun 17, 2012 16:33:46 GMT -8
just to note and help people out. i bought the tap to make my own cases for the hornady oal gauge
so if someone needs a case made/drilled and threaded i will do it at no cost. just pm me
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aftcg
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Post by aftcg on Jun 20, 2012 13:50:48 GMT -8
Just got back from the range, so I thought I'd keep anyone who cares posted about my progress with my new .243 lbc (yes, I know the bipod is on backwards. It's temporary until I get my Atlas and can remount my rail) Long story short, I still haven't found the sweet spot but I'm on to a potential load. Before I get to my results, I did go back to my die height and adjust as described above to allow positive bolt closure and then go another .003". As a result I had 100% feed success today. Now on to the dirty work: A prostaffer here was kind enough to forward me some known good load recipes so I decided to try them out. I went with a ladder of RL15, sticking with the 87 Vmax. Not exciting results, with one anomaly and that was a group of 5 rounds at 29.4 grains that put 3 rounds in .4" with a total group size of 3.25" (in other words: crap). Next I went to Varget. I know a lot of people put it down but as much as I'd like to say I have a lot better powders on my shelf it has managed to turn in spectacular results on loads I've previously been ready to abandon (58 Vmax in .243 Win for example). Finally things that represent some kind of consistency. Still using the 87 Vmax I managed 1.1" using 28.6 grains of Varget and at 28.8 grains I ended up with 5 rounds in .9" - still not a tiny egg shaped hole but at least I wasn't embarrassed to go collect my target this time. It was less impressive at the bottom of the ladder but it clearly showed that it was tightening up as I increased powder charge. I have a little room above where I'm at now, so I'm hoping I can break .75 MOA for a coyote round. If so I'll play with seating depth and primers to see what else this combination has to offer. Just to throw some variety in the mix I brought a small sample of 70 grain Noslers pushed by VV N133. Both groups were 1.8" - fine if I was behind an open sight elk rifle. Unfortunately the little Nosler wouldn't do much more than hurt his feelings. Load development is always a head scratcher. I've got two Remington 700 VLS in .243 Win that are within 200 serial numbers of each other and they do NOT shoot the same combinations. One invokes sounds of angels with the 58 Vmax and other other will barely print on paper with it. However that one will shoot virtually any 85 grain pill with shocking consistency and no change to point of impact. I'm on my way down to get some 58s because I'm out, and I'll see if there are any Berger 95 VLDs on the shelf. I've also got a huge supply of Sierra 70 Blitzkings that showed some promise the first time out, and I need to explore that option. Sigh. Tedious but worth it...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2012 18:19:27 GMT -8
Try the 8208 loads. The 58 gr Vmax is a real shooter
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aftcg
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Post by aftcg on Jun 20, 2012 20:52:22 GMT -8
I'm on it Rich, thanks. My local source was out of 8208 but if I drive another 50 miles I can get 8 pounds of it.
I did pick up another stash of 58Vmax and 95 VLD Berger. Now, other than the 8208 I have everything on the list you sent.
I've got one more local source I'll try at lunch time tomorrow before I make the trek.
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Post by jamesg651 on Jun 21, 2012 8:40:54 GMT -8
Keep us updated on your results. Because of your hard work and experimenting it will only help others in their quest for a good load. Thanks a lot!
Jim
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aftcg
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Post by aftcg on Jun 23, 2012 10:23:01 GMT -8
I will James.
I managed to score a pound of 8208 and then went ape s*** loading up some rounds.
I've got 58 Vmax, 70 Nosler, 70 Sierra Blitzking, 85 Sierra Gameking, 85 Barnes TSX, 87 Vmax and 95 Berger VLD.
I'm going to assasinate some paper tomorrow and see what prints, and what patterns.
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Post by jamesg651 on Jun 24, 2012 19:25:12 GMT -8
Let us know how it goes. Sounds like fun! ;D
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aftcg
Junior Member
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Post by aftcg on Jul 27, 2012 15:26:29 GMT -8
Okay update time. I forgot I was posting in this thread and had been putting additional information in my build thread here: www.blackholeweaponry.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=243lbc&action=display&thread=810I've had a frustrating experience trying to get an impressive group out of my .243lbc build. After last time out and seeing only 1.1-1.25" best effort groups and several at 2" plus I decided to pull back and study what I know instead of reading internet recipes. The .243 lbc is a stretched 6ppc, so maybe I should consider what loads work well in that caliber. The powder that commonly pops up for the lighter bullets is VV N133. I happen to have 3 pounds I bought for my .22ppc (which it didn't love) so today I loaded up a short ladder, starting a full 3 grains less than my Sierra manual has for the top end of the 6ppc. 26.9 grains, the 58Vmax with an OAL of 2.176" gave me this: As I worked up from there I got some spread and then two distinct groups and finally my last group (still well below published max for 6ppc) put three in one hole and another out at around 1". I'm going to load that ladder up again and see if I can duplicate the small group and chrono it. Referencing my burn rate chart I may try BL(C)-2 for the 95 Berger and/or possibly H414 More later.
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