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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2012 13:17:44 GMT -8
All the bullet seating data is a moot point. It is only relevant if everyone is using the same comparator.
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Post by biggdawg on Jul 14, 2012 14:03:28 GMT -8
All the bullet seating data is a moot point. It is only relevant if everyone is using the same comparator. it is just info to show throat info. every barrel is diff. and needs to be checked. but if you have the hornady oal gauge and use the .264 insert it gives pertinent info. but basically it does show the diff. in all the bullets and the relation of oal and lto of the diff. bullets and how it affects col
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Post by biggdawg on Jul 14, 2012 14:17:26 GMT -8
Any chronograph data on your loads yet? Greg i will be going to the range sunday with my 85 sierra,95 vmax, 100 sp hornady, and 100 sierra hp with h335 and xterminator powder ladders and see how they do. will post up ave. velocity and es,sd info along with group info. only going to shoot 3 round groups for now till i get it somewhat dialed in. i have 5 or 6 powders to try and bullets from 85 to 129gn and will share all my info i get. i use a ced m2 chrono and i will only be shooting at 100 yards for now after i have the loads dialed i will take it out farther but the longer ranges are farther away.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2012 14:21:09 GMT -8
It will only mean anything if it comes from your comparator. What if the bullets are from a different lot? Is your barrel the original chamber or one that has been altered? Your bolt is Mil Spec? That can mean up to .005 tolerance in the bolt face.
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Post by biggdawg on Jul 16, 2012 16:11:42 GMT -8
got to the range yesterday with some test loads.
i found out i started too low on charge. quickload data was figured with my case capacity of 30.5 unfired and i worked my loads from there. but even at my highest charges they were still over a grain low.
the only loads that where close was my 85 sierras
28.6 h335 85 sierra hp 2.235 1) 2976 2) 2949 3) 2975 High: 2976 Low: 2949 E.S.: 27 Ave.: 2966.7 S.D.: 12.5 29 h335 85 sierra hp 2.235 1) 2997 2) 2982 High: 2997 Low: 2982 E.S.: 15 Ave.: 2989.5 S.D.: 7.5
and my 100 sierra hp
27.5 h335 100 sierra hp 2.235 1) 2736 2) 2740 3) 2730 High: 2740 Low: 2730 E.S.: 10 Ave.: 2735.3 S.D.: 4.1 27.7 h335 100 sierra hp 2.235 1) 2772 High: 2772 Low: 2772 E.S.: 0 Ave.: 2772 S.D.: 0
the 85's have about .5-.75 grain left and the 100's about a grain so i should see 3050-3100 with the 85's and 2850 with the 100's
i am making up some loads with a2200,re7, xterminator and h335 and will shoot them next weekend. and have more data.
good thing is it functioned perfectly and everything i shot was 1.5" or less groups.
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jul 16, 2012 17:05:49 GMT -8
Looks good. I would suggest RL10 or RL 15 over the RL 7 though with the big boys.
Velocites are on par with the 6X45 I've been shooting. Of course I'm using a 24" barrel to get there and a larger case.
What are you saying was a grain low? If you mean the mount of powder that the case can hold do not take that to mean that you can put more in the case. Many powders reach MAX pressure way before they fill the case.
If we could just fill a case up with X amount of any powder because it will hold it we would have no need for pressure tests or reloading manuals.
Greg
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dr69er
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Post by dr69er on Jul 16, 2012 17:08:27 GMT -8
Keep up the great work BD. No doubt you will be getting top notch accuracy and even more Impressive velocity numbers than you already have...
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jul 16, 2012 19:57:12 GMT -8
Have you filled a case up with water yourself or are you going on a calculated volume?
I just filed up a fired 6X45 case that is 2 MM longer than the 6.5 PCC and came up with exactly 31 grains of water fliled to the case mouth. I don't think taking the taper out of the case body would add that much volume.
With those big bullets shoved down in there you must really be compressing those loads. Right?
Greg
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Post by biggdawg on Jul 17, 2012 3:45:25 GMT -8
Have you filled a case up with water yourself or are you going on a calculated volume? I just filed up a fired 6X45 case that is 2 MM longer than the 6.5 PCC and came up with exactly 31 grains of water fliled to the case mouth. I don't think taking the taper out of the case body would add that much volume. With those big bullets shoved down in there you must really be compressing those loads. Right? Greg yes i took 5 cases and filled them with water. just some more info my 7.62x40 wildcat has a case capacity of 31 grains. i think the larger neck compensates for some of the length. the instructions say to case overflow. so when i filled the cases with water i did so till the water had a slight bubble above the edge -- because of the viscosity of water i also tap the case just before i top it off to make sure there is no air. if i didn't do that they were right at 32gn also the numbers in quick load look about right compared to my data if i bump the case capacity up to the 32.3 i also use tap water if that makes a diff. i haven't shot any of the real long bullets yet just the shorter flat base bullets but QL says that the powder is 98-105% of usable capcity.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2012 5:19:09 GMT -8
I would not trust Quick Load!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quick Load is meant to be a tool to start the loading-thinking process. It is not to be used as a loading manual.
Obviously You are over max pressure. Check the data on a 6.5 BR. You have already succeeded to out run the 6.5 Grendel, and have done this with 2 inches less barrel.
I am not sure where you got your data from, and I don't really care. If it were me ( I value my eyes and hands ) I think I would use some 6.5 TCU data and be happy with what I got.
The other problem I can see is you are compressing your powder charge when you seat the bullet. This is not necessarily a bad thing if you use the correct powder. DO NOT compress ball powder. Hodgdon has put out warnings about this.
I just spent the last 15 minutes on the phone with an engineer at Hodgdon Powder. He confirmed what I am telling you, DO NOT compress ball powder. In his words, ( when you compress ball powder the burn rate will increase as the powder burns. This will cause pressure to spike. The more compression the higher the pressure spike.) This is caused by inconsistent compression of the powder granules. Directly under the heel of the bullet is where compression is the highest, even to the point that you will crack the spheres. When this happens the retardant on the outside of the powder is compromised allowing it to burn at a faster rate.
Wildcatting is a great hobby, but there is more to it than what a computer program tells you. Your dealing with an unknown, and it will bite you if your not careful.
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Post by biggdawg on Jul 17, 2012 5:43:50 GMT -8
thanks for the info.
i haven't loaded any more rounds yet but i think i can read primers pretty well and you could still see the rounded edge on the primers and there were no ejector swipes or smears at 29.
i do know QL isn't a load manual never said it was. it gives guidelines and pressure estimates.
my primers look way better than factory xm193 556 loads that is for sure.
i am proceeding with normal caution as i load.
i will post pics of the primers and maybe you can help me read them. i surely don't want to blow myself up.
i would be happy with the 2900 with the 85 sierra's
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jul 17, 2012 8:27:59 GMT -8
thanks for the info. i haven't loaded any more rounds yet but i think i can read primers pretty well and you could still see the rounded edge on the primers and there were no ejector swipes or smears at 29. i do know QL isn't a load manual never said it was. it gives guidelines and pressure estimates. my primers look way better than factory xm193 556 loads that is for sure. i am proceeding with normal caution as i load. i will post pics of the primers and maybe you can help me read them. i surely don't want to blow myself up. i would be happy with the 2900 with the 85 sierra'sAnd that is the sanest thing I've ever heard regarding this wildcat. Unrealistic expectations on a cartridge that NO ONE else is shooting, including the cartidge orginator/designer, and publishing actual experience on can be a real hurt locker. Even the fellow that did the initial workups on the 6.5 PCC has said that the pressures were getting out of control at the top end and that he felt he was pushing it too hard. Because you can doesn't mean you must. Of course another issue that is pretty consistent is few cartridges perform best in the accuracy world when we firewall them. I've done a bit of that on purpose and accuracy degradation and inconsistent chronograph results are a big key to impending problems. Shooting two or three rounds won't get you a good picture of what is going on. A string of no less than ten is validating and several strings of ten is a much better yardstick. You really can't get an accurate SD with two rounds. My Millennium won't do it with only three. I want to see s trip come out of my printer with at least the 10 rounds so I can look at a trend. You can have two or three close together and then get jumped by a 125 FPS spike. Not Good! Load safe my friend and keep thinking. Greg
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Post by biggdawg on Jul 17, 2012 8:57:54 GMT -8
here are a pic of the primers on my h335 loads fresh cases i am using rem 7 1/2 primers on top row left are the 100 sierra hp rounds 27.7-26.7 higher charges on left on left are the hornady sp rounds 27.1- 25.7 higher charges on left on the bottom left are the 85 sierras 27.9-29 higher charges on right and on bottom right 95 vmax 26.9-27.1 higher charges on right didn't shoot the low charges because everything was low so i only shot the top two loads and they were still light in my opinion the one thing i did notice is the first round always seemed lighter than the next 2. i think i may have some neck tension issues as i didn't crimp these rounds and they may have been moving out ever so slightly so what do you guys think?
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Post by biggdawg on Jul 17, 2012 9:02:05 GMT -8
thanks for the info. i haven't loaded any more rounds yet but i think i can read primers pretty well and you could still see the rounded edge on the primers and there were no ejector swipes or smears at 29. i do know QL isn't a load manual never said it was. it gives guidelines and pressure estimates. my primers look way better than factory xm193 556 loads that is for sure. i am proceeding with normal caution as i load. i will post pics of the primers and maybe you can help me read them. i surely don't want to blow myself up. i would be happy with the 2900 with the 85 sierra'sAnd that is the sanest thing I've ever heard regarding this wildcat. Unrealistic expectations on a cartridge that NO ONE else is shooting, including the cartidge orginator/designer, and publishing actual experience on can be a real hurt locker. Even the fellow that did the initial workups on the 6.5 PCC has said that the pressures were getting out of control at the top end and that he felt he was pushing it too hard. Because you can doesn't mean you must. Of course another issue that is pretty consistent is few cartridges perform best in the accuracy world when we firewall them. I've done a bit of that on purpose and accuracy degradation and inconsistent chronograph results are a big key to impending problems. Shooting two or three rounds won't get you a good picture of what is going on. A string of no less than ten is validating and several strings of ten is a much better yardstick. You really can't get an accurate SD with two rounds. My Millennium won't do it with only three. I want to see s trip come out of my printer with at least the 10 rounds so I can look at a trend. You can have two or three close together and then get jumped by a 125 FPS spike. Not Good!Load safe my friend and keep thinking. Greg there is no way i am loading 10 rounds of anything before i get an idea of where i am at. i run 3 shots to get an idea -- less to pull -- i pulled 45 rounds this time that i didn't shoot because they were too low in my opinion. i do agree once i get close i always run 2 10 round strings for each load at least. secondly i shoot for the most accurate round not the fastest but i do like to know where i am at with a gun and what it can take.
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