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Post by savagecornmuffin on Apr 13, 2015 7:03:37 GMT -8
I've wanted a lightweight hunting rifle for awhile. I was looking at lightweight bolt actions, but I think I can get really close to the same weight range in an AR. In a bolt gun I was going to stick with 308, but the stats on the 264 LBC/Grendel really got my attention. My shooting goal is 300 yard deer hunting and occasional hog hunting. My equipment goal is to go as lightweight as I can afford. Also worth noting, I plan to run 123gr Hornady's exclusively, whether off the shelf or hand loaded.
Questions:
14.5" pinned brake vs 16" target crown. Is there a significant weight difference between the two? Is there a significant performance difference between the two? Is recoil and muzzle rise so significant that I'd want a muzzle brake.
Gas Length Differences. I don't want to fiddle with getting this gun running. Would running a mid length 14.5 inch gun give me any problems? Any reason to go carbine over mid? I won't be running any iron sights. Glass only.
I've read that formed x39 brass has less powder capacity than Grendel/LBC brass. Is the difference significant? Will it cost me any velocity?
I've seen it stated that off the shelf Hornady 123gr Ammo get 2400 fps + in a 14.5 in barrel. Can anyone confirm this? Any known velocities with Hornady ammo in BHW's 14.5 and 16 inch barrels?
Any reason not to go 264 LBC considering my shooting goal? I want to drop at least 1000 FPE at 300 yrds in the smallest/lightest possible package with off the shelf ammo. I'm still kinda torn between 264 LBC and 6.8 SPC. All th
Also, any concerns or considerations regarding a lightweight AR build that you can relate would be appreciated.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2015 8:46:09 GMT -8
I've wanted a lightweight hunting rifle for awhile. I was looking at lightweight bolt actions, but I think I can get really close to the same weight range in an AR. In a bolt gun I was going to stick with 308, but the stats on the 264 LBC/Grendel really got my attention. My shooting goal is 300 yard deer hunting and occasional hog hunting. My equipment goal is to go as lightweight as I can afford. Also worth noting, I plan to run 123gr Hornady's exclusively, whether off the shelf or hand loaded. Questions: 14.5" pinned brake vs 16" target crown. Is there a significant weight difference between the two? Is there a significant performance difference between the two? Is recoil and muzzle rise so significant that I'd want a muzzle brake. Gas Length Differences. I don't want to fiddle with getting this gun running. Would running a mid length 14.5 inch gun give me any problems? Any reason to go carbine over mid? I won't be running any iron sights. Glass only. I've read that formed x39 brass has less powder capacity than Grendel/LBC brass. Is the difference significant? Will it cost me any velocity? I've seen it stated that off the shelf Hornady 123gr Ammo get 2400 fps + in a 14.5 in barrel. Can anyone confirm this? Any known velocities with Hornady ammo in BHW's 14.5 and 16 inch barrels? Any reason not to go 264 LBC considering my shooting goal? I want to drop at least 1000 FPE at 300 yrds in the smallest/lightest possible package with off the shelf ammo. I'm still kinda torn between 264 LBC and 6.8 SPC. All th Also, any concerns or considerations regarding a lightweight AR build that you can relate would be appreciated. I will try and answer all your questions Building a light weight AR is doable, but not a cheap endeavor. There are 5.5 pound 308's out there in a bolt configurations. You said you wanted to shoot the Hornady 123 bullets exclusively. That's a pretty tall order because not all barrels like ONE bullet. I'm not saying it won't, just that it might not. You asked about the 14.5" verses the 16" barrels. I would go with all the barrel I could get. That 1.5 inches of muzzle attachment will add nothing to help your ballistic requirements. Meaning it will gain you nothing, in fact you will loose velocity because of it. Gas length is a subject that comes up all the time. I would go with the longest gas length that will make the gun run reliably. With a 16" barrel that would be a mid length, carbine length for the 14.5" barrel Yes X39 brass has less capacity than Grendel brass. The cost of making the brass will be more than buying new Lapua. I can't give you any velocity numbers with that short of a barrel. I also have never shot any factory ammunition. I would go with the LBC over the 6.8, simply for the down range capabilities of the 6.5 bullets. B.C. wins every time at 300 plus yards.
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Post by savagecornmuffin on Apr 13, 2015 9:56:00 GMT -8
I'll try other bullets if I need to, but I've read that there's a lot of success with the Hornadys. I have no intention of hotrodding loads. I like the ballistics that I've read for the Hornady loads. My hand loads will duplicate that loading. If the Hornady 123s won't shoot for me, then I'll will be forced to switch up. But the idea is to shoot the 123s. They're easy to find on the webs and occasionally I see them cheap. Midway just blew some out for $20 a box.
I'm guessing, since you didn't mention it, that there isn't a huge benefit in using a muzzle break with this cartridge. I really don't find it necessary shooting 223, but this being a lightweight I wan't sure.. I'm shooting for around 6.5-7 lbs scoped and loaded with a 5 rd mag. If I need to run a break for follow shots then I'll likely go with the 14.5. If the muzzle rise isn't significant then I'll go with a 16 inch. I had an AR10 (308). With that gun I couldn't get back on target as fast as I'd like when hog hunting. A Brake really helped that gun. I don't have the issue with 223. I'm hoping that the LBC can shoot softly enough from a lightweight that I don't need one. Gut feeling is that I'll be happy running the 16" with a target crown
From what I've read, there is no significant velocity increase until you get to 18 inches. I'm not trying to ring every last FPS from it I can. If I'm hitting around 1000 fpe at 300 yards, then I'm happy. 123 or 120 grain bullets at 2400 fps get me there.
Forming brass is a rain day project for me. I have a heap of Winchester brass. If its a bunch of trouble, then I likely won't do it.
And just to verify, even though I know the answer, a Type I chamber takes a standard 7.62x39 bolt, correct?
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Apr 13, 2015 10:24:14 GMT -8
If you want to shoot 7.62X39 brass it will shoot fine. The capacity is lower so you will pay the price on the velocity end. It is a pain in the butt having to fire form the cases in an AR. Not only are you spending money on bullets, primer and powder you are causing barrel wear. 6.5 bullets are not cheap IMHO.
If you're going that route with handloading the Nosler 123 CC bullets are also a viable alternative to the Hornady. They are also pretty cheap at times on the Shooters Pro Shop.
The LBC has far less muzzle rise than any 308 period. I would run a brake in competition but for the hunting world it's not going to give you much IMHO usable extra control.
The 7.62X39 bolt is just the ticket on a BHW LBC.
Greg
BTW I have a KTB 223 with an old A2 stock and a 4X12 Bushnell that weighs right on 6.8 pounds. A 264 LBC at 7 pounds is not that hard to do.
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Post by savagecornmuffin on Apr 13, 2015 10:44:12 GMT -8
Thanks for the info. I'll go with a 16" light profile target crown. I think I'll be able to hit the 6.5 lb mark. If it goes to 7lbs I won't be heart broken.
I'm going with a Clarks Carbon fiber foregrip and Ace Light weight stock. Scope mount is still being decided on. I have a Trijicon 3-9. Its not super lightweight, but 12 OZs ain't bad. I'll shop for utlralight scopes after I do a bit of financial recovery from this build.
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Post by rand242 on Apr 13, 2015 11:09:31 GMT -8
If weight, maneuverability, and sufficient ballistics for a 300 yd shot when deer hunting are your primary considerations then an 18"+ barrel length in either .264LBC or 6.8spc. would meet your criteria. I would consider going with a lightweight, fluted, barrel profile with a target crown; 18-20 inches long. You can save some additional weight by going with a carbon fiber forearm, and lighter weight butt stock. A 16" barrel will probably work fine, but the loss of velocity and increased noise are something to consider.
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Apr 13, 2015 11:14:28 GMT -8
Thanks for the info. I'll go with a 16" light profile target crown. I think I'll be able to hit the 6.5 lb mark. If it goes to 7lbs I won't be heart broken. I'm going with a Clarks Carbon fiber foregrip and Ace Light weight stock. Scope mount is still being decided on. I have a Trijicon 3-9. Its not super lightweight, but 12 OZs ain't bad. I'll shop for utlralight scopes after I do a bit of financial recovery from this build. With that FF tube and stock you should be in good shape Greg
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Post by savagecornmuffin on Apr 14, 2015 14:30:09 GMT -8
Got my barrel ordered . 16 inch target crown light profile. Time to shop for everything else.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 16:24:19 GMT -8
Thanks for the info. I'll go with a 16" light profile target crown. I think I'll be able to hit the 6.5 lb mark. If it goes to 7lbs I won't be heart broken. I'm going with a Clarks Carbon fiber foregrip and Ace Light weight stock. Scope mount is still being decided on. I have a Trijicon 3-9. Its not super lightweight, but 12 OZs ain't bad. I'll shop for utlralight scopes after I do a bit of financial recovery from this build. Since you are talking deer at 300 yards and light weight is what you are looking for a Weaver Classic 2-7x only weighs in at 10 oz. this would be an excellent scope for the range you specified. www.midwayusa.com/product/629513/weaver-classic-v-series-rifle-scope-25-7x-32mm-dual-x-reticle-matte
the 2-10x comes in at a light 10.7 oz. www.midwayusa.com/product/1477410634/weaver-classic-v-series-rifle-scope-2-10x-38mm
Good luck on it. I like light weight too post photos when you get'er done. Everyone says the barrels are worth the weight...I cant say for sure I am still waiting on an order placed Feb 6
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Post by savagecornmuffin on Apr 15, 2015 7:24:46 GMT -8
I'm looking for something with some BDC. I think I'm going with a 3x9 Leupold Ultralight. If those Weavers had a mildot or BDC reticle, I'd certainly give them a try.
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Post by savagecornmuffin on Apr 22, 2015 7:01:19 GMT -8
You gotta be kidding me 6 days after I Order there's a 20% off sale,... Damn.
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Post by savagecornmuffin on Apr 22, 2015 9:28:04 GMT -8
Just got my Ace Ultralight and my lower receiver. Gotta pick out a trigger and get a lower parts kit now.
Still haven't picked out a handguard.
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Post by bldsmith on Apr 23, 2015 20:35:34 GMT -8
I just ordered also. This happened with the first one I ordered too. Not good... I have taken a liking to the diamondhead handguards. I got a 13.5" for my new 458 SOCOM build. I am looking at an 8.5 for my pistol build in 264LBC. Here is the link. Diamondhead Handguards. Very comfortable and not to crazy expensive.
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Post by savagecornmuffin on May 5, 2015 7:23:50 GMT -8
Thanks for the info. I'll go with a 16" light profile target crown. I think I'll be able to hit the 6.5 lb mark. If it goes to 7lbs I won't be heart broken. I'm going with a Clarks Carbon fiber foregrip and Ace Light weight stock. Scope mount is still being decided on. I have a Trijicon 3-9. Its not super lightweight, but 12 OZs ain't bad. I'll shop for utlralight scopes after I do a bit of financial recovery from this build. Since you are talking deer at 300 yards and light weight is what you are looking for a Weaver Classic 2-7x only weighs in at 10 oz. this would be an excellent scope for the range you specified. www.midwayusa.com/product/629513/weaver-classic-v-series-rifle-scope-25-7x-32mm-dual-x-reticle-matte
the 2-10x comes in at a light 10.7 oz. www.midwayusa.com/product/1477410634/weaver-classic-v-series-rifle-scope-2-10x-38mm
Good luck on it. I like light weight too post photos when you get'er done. Everyone says the barrels are worth the weight...I cant say for sure I am still waiting on an order placed Feb 6
GPS, I got my hands on one of those Weaver scopes. I think you're right. Either one of those might be just the thing for this build. It may not have the BDC I wanted, but the weight is right and the build quality is better than I thought it would be. I'll drop that 2-7 in an Aero Ultra light mount and call it done. Got my lower parts in. Went with a ALG ACT trigger. It's not Match grade, but I've loved these in my other ARs. This trigger may not break in OZs, but its extremely predictable and nearly "creepless". I've ordered everything else but the Slick side receiver and the Gas block and tube. I went with a Carbine Length gas system in case I wanted to trim back to 14.5. You guys think an adjustable gas block is going to be any benefit on this rifle while running the barrel at 16 inches?
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2015 16:14:58 GMT -8
GPS, I got my hands on one of those Weaver scopes. I think you're right. Either one of those might be just the thing for this build. It may not have the BDC I wanted, but the weight is right and the build quality is better than I thought it would be. I'll drop that 2-7 in an Aero Ultra light mount and call it done. Got my lower parts in. Went with a ALG ACT trigger. It's not Match grade, but I've loved these in my other ARs. This trigger may not break in OZs, but its extremely predictable and nearly "creepless". I've ordered everything else but the Slick side receiver and the Gas block and tube. I went with a Carbine Length gas system in case I wanted to trim back to 14.5. You guys think an adjustable gas block is going to be any benefit on this rifle while running the barrel at 16 inches? I thought you would like it. they are great for lightweight... Post a pic when you get that doneGive Michelle a call she can help you on the 20%
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