I need help on 6x45 loads

[letaz77]

Hey guys,

I'm trying to work up a load for my 6x45 18" 1:9 barrel. I am planing on using mainly either Berger 90g HPBT or Lapua 90g HPBT.

Hodgdon website lists 90g SP but the HPBT are slightly longer than the SP bullets . I was wondering if any of you have any experience with these bullets and could share some info as to what can expect in terms of velocity with an 18" barrel.

Thanks.

[GLSHOOTER]

Aug 31, 2011 15:39:53 GMT -8 letaz77 said:

Hey guys,

I'm trying to work up a load for my 6x45 18" 1:9 barrel. I am planing on using mainly either Berger 90g HPBT or Lapua 90g HPBT.

Hodgdon website lists 90g SP but the HPBT are slightly longer than the SP bullets . I was wondering if any of you have any experience with these bullets and could share some info as to what can expect in terms of velocity with an 18" barrel.

Thanks.

Probably 2650 or so for MAX velocity. I never shoot more than the Hornady 87's and can get 2750 out of a 22" sing 748. Maybe not the best powder but works well in our IPSC guns, I have always found the Hodgdon data right on for the numbers.

Greg

[letaz77]

Thanks Greg,

I suppose the 90g should not be that much larger than the 87g and should have very similar ballsitics and velocities.

I was thinking of using either H335 or Varget. We'll see how it goes once I start to actually developing the load.

[cz]

I"m getting data from Hogdon and some from AA, but I'm also using date for the 5.56(223) and load them down a little and work from there.(it's working!!) try a few powders and see how they work for you, I'm using a BHW's 6x45 and it doing great with the powder loads from .223
Pat

[GLSHOOTER]

Sept 3, 2011 10:39:27 GMT -8 cz said:

I"m getting data from Hogdon and some from AA, but I'm also using date for the 5.56(223) and load them down a little and work from there.(it's working!!) try a few powders and see how they work for you, I'm using a BHW's 6x45 and it doing great with the powder loads from .223
Pat

A same weight bullet in a big bore will generate less pressure with the same powder charge pushing the bullet down the barrel. Using heavy bullet loads for the 223 in a 6X45 case is usually OK. Of course if you have an issue it's all on you.

Since Hodgdon has done so much work with it in the past few years they deserve kudos for the assistance.

Greg

[artistinca]

Hey folks...

Isnt H335 and Win 748 the same?

Will the 87 and 90 gr bullets fit in an AR mag? Always understood 85 was max size for good vel w/out compressing the charge.

Im going to tinker with 75 gr Sierra HP and 75 gr Vmax's with 26 gr 748.

Im going for a tactical load for 3 gun and self defense.

Anyone other than Hornady(?) make an affordable FMJ?

Thoughts?

[GLSHOOTER]

Sept 22, 2011 7:10:16 GMT -8 artistinca said:

Hey folks...

Isnt H335 and Win 748 the same?

Will the 87 and 90 gr bullets fit in an AR mag? Always understood 85 was max size for good vel w/out compressing the charge.

Im going to tinker with 75 gr Sierra HP and 75 gr Vmax's with 26 gr 748.

Im going for a tactical load for 3 gun and self defense.

Anyone other than Hornady(?) make an affordable FMJ?

Thoughts?

First off welcome to the board. Lots of good shooters and helpful folk here.

748 and H335 ARE NOT THE SAME!! It is best to look at loading manuals and you will quickly find a burn rate chart and that the loading levels of a given powder will generate different pressures and velocities. There are very few COMMON rifle powders that are the same. You see some Mil-sup stuff that is CLOSE but it is usually not the same as a normally marketed powder on the civilian, you and me, market.

You will find some duplicate powders but they are not common. Here is what I have found over the years according to the manufacturers:
W231 = HP38
W296 = H110
W540 = HS-6
W571 = HS-7
W760 = H414 = AA2700
WAP = Ramshot Silhouette


I hope this helps. As for cheap bullets unless you are dead set on FMJ's the Remington 80's shoot well in the 6X45's I have and I use them in matches along with the 87 grain Hornady BTHPM bullets for my 3 Gun stuff. For SD in the 6X45 I'd be looking at the Barnes TSX bullets. I would not go the FMJ route.

I think you will find the 75's will work well for you. I never load heavier than 87's in mine and I have killed a boat load of PD's with the 55 grain Nosler bullets over the years.

Greg

[artistinca]

Greg thanks for the info!!

Im concerned now with the Win 748 load I loaded. I used 26.0 gr Win 748 with 75 gr Sierra HPs and 75 Gr. V Maxs. 2.26" OAL. After I saw this post I had a friend look in his Sierra book (unk Ed.). Loadings using Win 748 and 80 gr bullets were a max of 27.6 gr. Should I be concerned?

I think the 75 gr. will work.. Im concerned about using the VMaxs because they require seating further in the case than the Sierras. I still relatively new to reloading.

[Deleted]

You should be fine. Your more than 1.5 grains under max published load.

[Deleted]

I have put the case all the way to the rim with varget. pushed a 85 grainier there and achieve max pressure w/o ruining the case. Do not ever repeat this but if you follow the simple instructions a good .223 NATO case will be very hard to break.
Just work up slowly, look for flattened primers and extrusion marks as signs of high pressure do come in pairs.
Watch out with the soft brass like FC, Winchester and all the value packs.
Keep in mind that cases are very different in both strenght and capacity. if you want to have a good hunting HOT load use Nato brass. It is harder to resize and trim but more times than not will give you an extra grain capacity and still stronger.
Rem .223 is certified to 55K PSI whereas 5.56 NATO is 62K PSI.

I can send you some load references if you want. I have both ends mild accuracy loads with light bullets designed to replicate hot heavy load paths for hunting, including long range loads. All practical stuff, nothing for looks only.

We fight as we train.

[Deleted]

I found the following info for you regarding the cases...

.223 Rem Case Weight vs. Capacity
Case Manufacturer Case Weight* H20 Capacity**

Lake City 06 92.0 30.6
WCC99 95.5 30.5
Sellier & Belloit 92.3 30.5
Remington 92.3 30.4
PMC 93.5 30.4
Hirtenberger 93.7 30.4
Lake City 04 93.0 30.4
Federal 96.3 30.2
Hornady 93.9 30.1
IMG (Guatemalan) 95.4 30.1
Lapua (new lot) 93.4 30.1
Winchester 93.9 30.1
Olympic 97.4 30.0
Radway Arsenal 96.1 30.0
PMP 104.5 29.9
FNM 93-1 97.3 29.8
Lapua (old lot) 104.0 28.0

[artistinca]

Thanks Zero.

Right now Ive got Hornady, LC 04(?) cases, SB cases, and a few Winchester cases. Most of it is Horandy and SB. I save the Hornady for the good loads and the rest of the cases are range loads.

[GLSHOOTER]

One thing that always stands out when someone, whoever, posts a weight/H2O chart is that it will consistently show several mil-spec cases that have greeter capacity than the regular run of the mill commercial stuff.

I have given up worrying about this alleged"difference" in my mil-spec cases in the 223/556 family. In the 308/7.62 world the differences might be as much as 10%. I use to load R-P cases on 308 back in the 70's and they would hold four grains LESS of 4350 than a Winchester-Western Super-X!!

I've sat down more than once grabbing all the 556/233 brands I had on hand, of which it is many, and not seen what I considered enough difference to bother with. Of course I do work up my loads and am not blindly running my finger to the right side of the column and picking that as my "load".

I love velocity but like I always refer back to SAFETY is #1 and accuracy is #2 and velocity is #3. As a fourth criteria I worry about case life on my hard to get cases. I could care less if I only get five loads out of a 223 case as I have so big a stash of them that I couldn't load all of them five times before I wore out a barrel if I tried as I rotate them with each firing. Once everything is fired once I start back again and don't load that batch of cases until they are all used up.

My 6X45 is not shot near as much as my 223 guns as it is my main match caliber for IPSC and the 223's are more for varmints and plain having fun. If I get a new 6x$5 BHW barrel I'll be loading a bunch more of that round. I have a five gallon bucket of once fired Winchester 223 commercial cases that are waiting patiently for a new nice chamber to snuggle up in after they get their little necks expanded.

Remember this is what I do. YMMV and decisions are all on you as a responsible loader.

Greg

[Deleted]

This is my experience with different makers...
I have found the lake city to be very good overall value for necking up or down. Also the Nato cases are hard brass that is lighter yet stronger. I am not sure the precise figure but I think NATO 5.56 spec is certified up to 62K PSI (I need to look that back in the books). Now by any means I am not suggesting this is what one should do or take this figure to hearth. Everyone needs to their research and homework. I have seen a guy ruining WSSM brass just as easily as an old trap door case.

Winchester and FC are nice cases to leave in .223. on average. FC can be necked up w/o need of trimming many times. FC is soft brass and primers loose tension fast. I toss them away after x4 (in AR) no matter what. Anyway a good all around for training or whatever.

PMC reloads well. I find them to be a good value too. you have two types, soft and harder with nice annealing brass. Bronze is softer and milder load that some of the others that come with 62 penetrators are hotter and have a nice annealing. The PMC bronze sometimes show inconsistencies in the flash holes size and being off center.

Lapuas are very nice cases but they are expensive. They are very accurate due to the consistency in weight and dimensions. Strong cases too but hard to justify for many for average use.

S&B I put there with the winchesters, with the whinchester being a little heavier and stronger. I leave them for .223 only.

PPU (priv Partizan) is good brass, not so much the .223 but the NATO rounds are in line with some of the french, german and other European NATO brass. Sometimes I have seen batches that were not consistent but for the most part are ok.

Remington has very nice brass that is good for many reloads but again a little higher up in the price list. Great match ammo for .223. I do not use them in the offspring calibers as they do so well with the .223. The UMC is a nice value too.

I also have probably about 400-500 pounds of .223 LC, Hornady, FC and other brass so I have brass for me and my grandchildren so I do not worry about how many reloads I get although I try to preserve it as much as I one can reasonably do.

Many of those makers above make also excellent 7.62x51 NATO brass that reload really well. In .308 the differences are less relevant for average use as the whole round tends to be very versatile and consistent even from different brass and bullet makers. One of my favorites though is a 175SMK with Varget. Pretty consistent. Just like the 69 Sierras in .223 case with Varget too.

I agree with the previous post: SAFETY FIRST above anything else. That is always a wise advice.