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Post by Former Corpsman on May 29, 2012 20:43:36 GMT -8
Ok folks... I have this grand plan. I am going to build 2 identical uppers, 5.56 and 300 Blackout, 18", mid-length. While I don't want to skimp on quality in the least (hence me buying BHW) I don't want to waste any money either. I want to run a piston system and am basically down to Adams vs Osprey. What I'd ideally like to do is make as many of the parts as possible usable on both. I also do not want to squander the accuracy of either barrel so I want to free float both uppers. I'd like to have a fixed gas block on each, but swap piston and rod as well as the handguard from one to the other as necessary. SOOOO what I'm looking for is some experience with each system and how easy each takes down and any advantages or disadvantages of each system, and what handguards might allow for easy off easy on. Yes, I know about the fitment page Osprey has for handguards, but it's apparently never updated. Anyway I thank you ahead of time for sharing your experiences, and I also thank you for refraining from stories about your "uncle's ex-wife's brother-in-law's barber's banker heard this about that," but you never personally have touched a piston drive or a free float tube...
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Post by Brandon Sneed on May 30, 2012 3:24:12 GMT -8
First, if you plan a Blackout at 18", you will still need a carbine gas system. Mid will not leave you enough gas to properly cycle, even with a piston.
Second, I'd specifically inquire about them opening the gas port for you upon order since it will be for a piston. By default I've found the port is too small to cycle.
Good luck on your quest. One question: why piston?
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Post by GLSHOOTER on May 30, 2012 5:22:46 GMT -8
Ok folks... I have this grand plan. I am going to build 2 identical uppers, 5.56 and 300 Blackout, 18", mid-length. While I don't want to skimp on quality in the least (hence me buying BHW) I don't want to waste any money either. I want to run a piston system and am basically down to Adams vs Osprey. What I'd ideally like to do is make as many of the parts as possible usable on both. I also do not want to squander the accuracy of either barrel so I want to free float both uppers. I'd like to have a fixed gas block on each, but swap piston and rod as well as the handguard from one to the other as necessary. SOOOO what I'm looking for is some experience with each system and how easy each takes down and any advantages or disadvantages of each system, and what handguards might allow for easy off easy on. Yes, I know about the fitment page Osprey has for handguards, but it's apparently never updated. Anyway I thank you ahead of time for sharing your experiences, and I also thank you for refraining from stories about your "uncle's ex-wife's brother-in-law's barber's banker heard this about that," but you never personally have touched a piston drive or a free float tube... OK, now this is just my OPINION, so don't light the torches yet!! You have a great idea but when you put that piston on a barrel the harmonics go out the window like a rattlesnake run overt by a truck. It writhes around a bit and goes nowhere. It is just too much going on when the piston hits and the BCG moves and everything rearranges. Anecdotally look around and you won;t find a long range shooter with one on his stick. Up close and personal or targets the size of an orange at 200 yards are doable but if it is a golf ball size area , like a PD head, at 350 yards you will more than likely be exceeding the abilities of the platform. The DI's do a yeoman job out there and I don't believe I, personally, will not mess with 50 years of success. YMMV Greg |
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Post by Former Corpsman on May 31, 2012 12:18:22 GMT -8
GL. I'm not surprised that the benchrest folks avoid the piston, they have no reason to use one as they don't shoot enough in a match to worry about what worries me, cleanliness. I love to shoot, I love to fish, but I don't particularly care for the cleaning afterward, hence my interest in a piston. I also go through a LOT of rounds at the range, as I am a firm believer that if I am the most practiced and have the best habits, were I ever to be in a fight that required me to use my rifle, my superior skill and equipment will hopefully be of some sort of use to me were the time to use it come. Because I want my chamber to stay both clean and cool the piston is the only way to go as I see it. I believe it nearly removes the reason that the forward assist exists, as other fine piston-driven arms do not have this feature (M1/a, AK, etc) as it really isn't necessary. I understand that a combat arm is a compromise of EVERYTHING. As this will be my "Swiss Army Knife" of my firearm collection, I need it to do everything well, but it probably will not excel in any particular area. I wondered if the system might affect accuracy, but as it doesn't cycle until the bullet is out of the barrel and it doesn't touch the barrel and it doesn't touch the barrel anymore than an impingement system does (a gas block is a gas block) I can't see logically where the difference lies.
I do want to thank you Brandon for the info about the length of the op system on the Blackout. I had seen a few rumblings about that possibility. Would opening that gas port help there as well? I'm thinking of contacting both Adams and Osprey directly and see what they have to say on the matter. I figured if BH was building it as an option, it must work.
If nothing else I can consider it an experiment that will be easy to go back on should it not work, but if it does, I'll look like a genius (first time for everything I suppose).
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Post by GLSHOOTER on May 31, 2012 12:52:38 GMT -8
I'm sure you will do fine once you get that superior skill honed with practice.
As to the barrel think about the harmonics of the weight laying on top of that barrel as the bullet goes down through it. WE know tat nay extra weight can make a difference. Look at the Mini 14 and try to use the same logic. It just isn't going to hold water. IMHO
If the activity of all these flying parts didn't impact accuracy why is it that a solid bolt action rifle will almost invariably, with a quality barrel, out shoot an AR with the same quality barrel?
Take a 6 PPC bolt gun and shoot it. Pull the barrel and stick a barrel extension on it and shoot it in an AR and I hazard a guess the groups will be a good deal better with the same barrel and loads while in the bolt gun than in the AR.
If I am incorrect wouldn't we see the AR's running with the big dog Stolles and Surgeons?
Greg
PS: I'm running a BHW AR in F-Class so I would say they are competitive to a point.
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Post by Former Corpsman on Jun 1, 2012 7:27:00 GMT -8
Hey I'm with you on the accuracy of bolt vs AR, certainly no arguement there. My primary huntin' tool is a Rem 700 in .270 WSM (My first build, BTW). I would fall over giddy if I could get my AR to shoot anywhere near as well as it does. It's almost boring shooting clover leafs with it, and it is probably better than that, I'm just not a competition shooter so I'm sure my methods could be improved, but I've put 3 holes that could be easily covere with the tip of my finger so it keeps me happy. If I can get 3 under a quarter at 100yds with my AR I will be plenty satisfied, as that translates to an orange at 400ish yards. Beyond that is essentially beyond the effective range of either the 5.56 or the 300Blk, so that is good enough for me. I'm thinking my daughter would love the 300 for deer, and as I hunt east Texas 3-400yds is usually well beyond the average shot taken. She shoots a (sadly) sporterized .303 Enfield that was a factory original sniper that manages somewhere just north of 1 moa, but that is one heavy piece I would not have wanted to haul all over Europe. Anyway what it comes down to is good enough, is, well, good enough.
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jun 1, 2012 8:15:40 GMT -8
I think you will find that a quarter is plenty of target when you get a BHW barrel rolling. That will turn out to be unacceptable PDQ shortly.
Greg
PS: Why not sign on as a member here and dump the "GUEST" moniker. To get the discount I believe you need to be hooked in. Sharing your experiences is great. Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 12:53:56 GMT -8
Hi Former Corpsman, First off, welcome to the BHW forums! Glad to have you! ;D Secondly, I have to second Greg about signing up to be a member. It's free AND it will tally up your post count so you can take advantage of the 10% discount we offer to our forum members! Also it'll give you access to boards that the average viewer doesn't get to see unless they're logged in.  Hope to see you around! |
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