load testing troubles with 6x45

[blm148]

i just got my 20"bhw 6x45 together and have had troubles with finding a decent load thus far. I have only tried what i had on hand for components. So here goes. day 1 i loaded exclusively 75gr sierra varminter hp's with h335 and had loads of 24.5, 25, 25.5, 26 and 26.2 grains. I didnt have a single load that shot under an inch and most were about 1.5 to 2" groups with the largest being 2.5. These were loaded to 2.255 COAL. Day 2 using h335 and hdy 87gr hpbt's i had loads of 23.5, 24, 24.5, 25 and 25.3 no signs of pressure with any loads. first group on a clean barrel was .75, the very next 3 shot group was 1.4 at 23.5 gr's and after that not a single load was under an inch and a half. My last groups of the day at 25 and 25.3 were barely minute of basketball at about 4-5". So now im starting to look for the flaw in my system. I'm going to try rl15 next week when i get time. I would really like the 87 hpbt's to work. On day 1 it was about 102 and day two the temp was 87. I'm wondering if it could be brass related. it is all once fired pmc brass. maybe my dragons head brake is messing up the works. maybe it was an issue with barrel break in or maybe it doesn't like getting hot at all. I never let it get hot enough to where i couldn't wrap my hand around it either day. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to try or where to go from here? the 87's were loaded to 2.268" by the way.

[GLSHOOTER]

Big kettle of fish. First thing I would do is pull the muzzle brake. The DH is great but I would want to see what it does naked.

Look at the brass and weigh ten pieces. Is it all over the place? If so select a batch that is close together + or - 2% from the average of ten random cases.

Are you crimping? If so STOP. Shoot them with neck tension only. There is plenty there to hold them in place.

You could load the 75's out a tad if you have a long magazine. Try 2.275 on them. On the 87's I'm shooting the Hornady BTHP's at 2.366 single loaded over RL15. H4895 is another good one.

I also use a Hornady Comparator Tool to make sure I have room to the lands. They are VERY educational and helpful in sorting these issues out.

I quit using H335 in the 6X45 when I was seeing lots of pressures issues with it in the heat. We have that here in Arizona you know!!

Also H335 is one that doesn't like to be compressed. Look closely at all of the Hodgdon data and you don't see a C after any load of H335 that I have seen. In fact Hodgdon says to NEVER compress a ball powder. There is a thread around here that says what they told Ritch about it. While they flow great if you are going for a really full case it is not the drug of choice.

I would try RL15, H4895 or TAC and see what you get. My 6X45 is thriving on those with different bullet weights.

Just somethings to try. We'll get it figured out.

Greg

[blm148]

haven't got to pick up any rl15 or 4895 yet but i decided to load up what brass i had left that was ready with varget and the 87's and 75's.

24-25.5 in .5 increments showed no groups much better that 1.5 -2" except for the 25gr loading which shot a 4 shot group at .9". dont know if this was a fluke or not. and the velocity of 2550 was not exactly all that i had hoped for. I think these loads are still relatively conservative but i was flying by the seat of my pants as there is no published load data that i can find for the 6x45 and varget. Absolutely no signs of pressure with any of the loads tried.

the 75's i only had enough brass left to load 3 rounds at 25.5 and 3 at 26 grains. Both of these shot into a half inch but velocity with 26grains was hanging around 2700. again i know the 6x45 is capable of more and probably with varget. There were zero signs of pressure and i'm going to try and work up some more to find a velocity i'm more happy with as long as the accuracy doesn't fall off. Maybe i'll have to just go ahead and bite the bullet and start stocking up on a new powder (rl15 or 4895)

Can anyone give me an idea of what velocity i can expect with the 75's and 87's loaded to mag length with the 6x45. Also has anyone had any experience of what powder charge i should be starting at or working up to with varget. Am i way underneath max or near max loads with the loads i tested above. it was about 90 degrees out today also.

[GLSHOOTER]

With a 20" you won't get quite what I have been doing but 2850 should be doable without a lot of issue with the 87's and I would look at 3000 with the 75's.

The Varget is a bit too slow for this one to really get decent top end with. Accuracy was good with the loads I shot in mine and if I wanted to be sure of a hit and had nothing else available with a proven history I could live with it.

I used 748 for two decades under an 87 for my IPSC 3 Gun loads and still use it on the Hornadys. One thing that has held true for all these years is that the Hodgdon and the AA powder sites have always given me good numbers. AA does a great deal of mag length stuff and I like it. Hodgdon gives larger variety but those two will cover 95% of anything I will ever do.

My take on the a super bullet is the 70 grain Speer TNT. They fly well and are devastating on the far end. For a 75 the VMAX is hard to beat. If I were chasing some big game I'd look to the Nosler 90's or the Sierra GK's at 85 grains.

Also I really have liked the bushing dies as they give me greater control over my neck tension and I like that great deal.

Greg

[will]

I'm actually building the same loads now with the Hornady 2442 (87gr BTHP), Sierra GK 85gr, and Nosler 85gr Partitions. My last runs were all using PMC once-fired brass, Benchmark powder, 2.258 COL and three shot groups at 50 yards. I was prone using a front rest. FPS are averages. I'm shooting out of a BHW 18" middy 1:10 barrel.

HDY 25.0 - 2581fps - .258 in
HDY 25.5 - 2651fps - .178 in
SIE 25.0 - 2573fps - .533 in
SIE 25.5 - 2643fps - .26 in
NOS 25.0 - 2546fps - .853 in (flyer)
NOS 25.5 - 2599fps - .182 in

The groups were all good (with one flyer) and I just did a load with 26.0 and 26.3 (at the upper end) so I'm going to chrono these this weekend. I think that some of your problems might be the powder as when I did this same test set with TAC it wasn't nearly as tight (with all tested bullets).

[GLSHOOTER]

That is excellent shooting. The numbers are about right on line with what I have seen over the years.

My method for a new barrel is to take one bullet and use three or four powders starting about 1.5 grains below book MAX and stepping up in 0.5 increments. The best loads in accuracy and velocity are then reshot and tweaked. I usually have one powder that is too slow and it gets dumped quick and one that just doesn't jell. Of the other two I often find it a toss up and decide if this is for hole punching or live game. If the former then obviously you go small group but if the hot one is doable as far as you would shoot that is the keeper for that task.

Limiting yourself to one powder or bullet at a session if you want to really wring them out is counterproductive IMHO.

I may well shoot the same charge weight in the BHW barrels and shoot them at mag length and some at the single shot uber-long settings to see what happens.

Greg

[blm148]

tried 4895 today. the 87gr hdy bthp's still were not impressive but better than they have been. 1.5-2" was the norm with all loads. the sierra 75's however shot like a dream. all were under an inch with most much less. 26.8 grains gave a 3 shot group of 3/8". As long as this has anywhere near decent velocity which i am almost sure it will, it will probably be my go to load. which works well as i already have a few hundred on hand and use them for a pet load in 243 win.

didn't have enough light this evening to use the chronograph and my girlfriend high jacked my camera so i will post velocities and pictures from my next range trip.

[GLSHOOTER]

Aug 30, 2012 22:55:05 GMT -8 blm148 said:

tried 4895 today. the 87gr hdy bthp's still were not impressive but better than they have been. 1.5-2" was the norm with all loads. the sierra 75's however shot like a dream. all were under an inch with most much less. 26.8 grains gave a 3 shot group of 3/8". As long as this has anywhere near decent velocity which i am almost sure it will, it will probably be my go to load. which works well as i already have a few hundred on hand and use them for a pet load in 243 win.

didn't have enough light this evening to use the chronograph and my girlfriend high jacked my camera so i will post velocities and pictures from my next range trip.

Glad to see you are getting somewhere. The 75's are shooting super in my 6X68. I want to try them in my 6X45. I am really looking forward to seeing the chronograph numbers on that one.

Greg

[will]

As I mentioned, I had some faster rounds loaded and was going to run them. The bullets are Hornady 2442 (87gr BTHP), Sierra GK 85gr, and Nosler 85gr Partitions. They're loaded in PMC once-fired brass, Benchmark powder, 2.258 COL and three shot groups at 50 yards. I was prone using a front rest. FPS are averages. I'm shooting out of a BHW 18" middy 1:10 barrel.

HDY 26.0 - 2881 fps - .516 in
HDY 26.3 - 2875 fps - .199 in
SIE 26.0 - 2786 fps - .316 in
SIE 26.3 - 2817 fps - .241 in
NOS 26.0 - 2857 fps - .406 in
NOS 26.3 - 2908 fps - .640 in

The oddity is that the HDY 26.3gr Benchmark loads were actually slower than the 26.0gr loads. Either I'm topped out in powder with the HDY bullet or I'm shooting across the chrony oddly. I think that for this year's hunting season I'm going with either the Sierra 85gr GameKings or the Hornady 87gr BTHP (#2442) at around 25.5 or 26.0gr. Doing the math, it puts FPE at the barrel between 1540 and 1600, which should easily bring down a deer at 200-250 yards.

So I think that your move to IMR4895 was a good one. My Benchmark is a bit faster burning (and oddly, the H335 you were loading is between the BM and the 4895), but every rifle has a "sweetspot" for loads- the magic of hand loading! I think with a bit of tweaking you'll find the perfect load for your 6x45.