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Post by letaz77 on Oct 20, 2012 23:25:02 GMT -8
Hi guys.
I have just read a forum where some 300BLK enthusiasts claimed it has more power than the 30-30 and the 7.62x39 Russian. It doesn't seem to be right to me. How true is their statement?
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Post by flutedbull204 on Oct 21, 2012 5:01:44 GMT -8
don't you know, everything on the internet it TRUE!!!!! 16 in barrel 300 AAC Blackout, 125 gr 2,215 ft/s 1,360 ft·lb
123.5 gr 7.62x39 Russian 2,640 ft/s 1,810 ft·lb
Let the numbers speak for themselves.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2012 6:59:28 GMT -8
Yes! my buddy once killed a Cape buffalo with a blackout 1 mile away! LOL Both calibers are equally limited by the poor ballistics. None of them is anywhere close to the 30-30 but the 7.62x39 holds more powder and has an advantage over the blackout and also if one puts together a nice AR with a nice bolt can shoot steel, sometimes very accurately, a plus for many people. You can find all the info you need in the reloading manuals and powder websites... data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
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Post by letaz77 on Oct 21, 2012 16:13:59 GMT -8
Right, that's what I thought; They can not post anything on the internet that isn't true. I have a 14.5"AR in 7.62x39. I love it and shoot steel through it. But when I came across that webpage claiming the 300BKL had more power than the 7.62x39 Russian I just had to ask people who knew more about it than I did. Thanks gents.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2012 19:28:30 GMT -8
It can be very confusing because we have professional writers comparing the 30-30 to the blackout and the russian round but are too lazy to even look it up. The advantage of the blackout is that shoots the .308 caliber bullets but I know wildcatters that swag the 30 caliber surplus bullets to shoot from the russian too. I see one advantage of the blackout int he subsonic world but then it doesn't stack well in regular high capacity magazines. If I was going to be limited like that then I would go with the 7.62x42WT that it takes a tad more powder. An efficient 30 caliber in a high capacity magazine is just not possible in the AR15 specially if one wants to use good deals on .308 surplus bullets. Lower capacity / Single stack some are ok but there are much better choices in the smaller calibers with much better bullets ballistically talking. The blackout is an "empowered" pistol round and would make more sense to stay in that purpose. In the supersonic world you need some powder and speed.
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Post by joebush on Oct 23, 2012 12:08:20 GMT -8
300 BLK is basically .460 Rowland with better ballistic coefficients and higher sectional density. As 1shot said, it is an empowered pistol round.
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dr69er
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Post by dr69er on Oct 23, 2012 17:34:41 GMT -8
The .300 BLK can come close to the x39mm Russian, but it was designed more for subsonic & supressed work...The only reason it can come close to the x39mm is that the .300 BLK is run at higher pressure vs. the x39mm round, and thus the .300 BLK develops less bolt thrust vs. the x39mm round.
The x39mm has the edge in supersonic form vs. the .300 BLK to be sure...
If you want a really good .308/7.62mm performer out of your AR-15 (supersonic velocities) then the 7.62x40mm WT would get the the thumbs-up.
I built a custom AR-15 for my Son in x39mm and he loves it... His 18" SS Mid-Gas barrel does 2,520 fps. with cheap Wolf black box 124gr. FMJ steel cased commercial ammo...the accuracy has been very good to excellent with both brass and steel cased ammo.
Good Luck.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2012 20:22:36 GMT -8
The .300 BLK can come close to the x39mm Russian, but it was designed more for subsonic & supressed work...The only reason it can come close to the x39mm is that the .300 BLK is run at higher pressure vs. the x39mm round, and thus the .300 BLK develops less bolt thrust vs. the x39mm round. The x39mm has the edge in supersonic form vs. the .300 BLK to be sure... If you want a really good .308/7.62mm performer out of your AR-15 (supersonic velocities) then the 7.62x40mm WT would get the the thumbs-up. I built a custom AR-15 for my Son in x39mm and he loves it... His 18" SS Mid-Gas barrel does 2,520 fps. with cheap Wolf black box 124gr. FMJ steel cased commercial ammo...the accuracy has been very good to excellent with both brass and steel cased ammo. Good Luck. Exactly. The 7.62x39 value packs are a plus for many but also some nice brass can be pumped to levels the blackout cannot reach. the 150gr sp loads are doing 2200fps+ easily. you even have factory loads in steel with those numbers. The blackout cannot do it. Not enough powder. Sorry. I created a comparative chart with my math so people can understand a bit more about where some alternative cartridges stand for the different needs. These are tested using RCBS ammo master chrono. When you see the line drop that means the bullet went subsonic at which point I discard the rest of the data. I have other spreadsheets and math for subsonic loads. Keep in mind casings like 204 Ruger, 204 practical, 6x45, 25x45, 6.5TCU(short), 6PCC, 7mm/42, 300 whisper/Blackout, 17/223, 223/AI, they all use the standard AR15 bolt face therefore they use standard magazines. Most of them stack well in hicap preban mags depending on bullet selection. The BR can stack about 18 in a 6.8 30 rounder but this makes more sense in a Bench or hunting mag. Can put up to 10 in a 15 mag. The BR, 6.8 and 7.62x39/LBC need dedicated magazines but 30 preban can be adapted to limited capacity. Only .223 bolt face will be alboe to use VLD magazines. I am only posting some of the more popular ones I have data for. I put the blackout factory data that is over optimistic just like all did including grendel when it came out. Let me know if someone is interested in more data.
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zj762
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Post by zj762 on Dec 7, 2012 4:56:31 GMT -8
Fluted Bull- What size barrel are you talking about running the x39's in? Just wondering cuz of the numbers you posted for velocity and energy. In my data I have 123's doing between 2300 and 2400ish. Energy around 1500 ft.lbs. I don't mean to start an argument, that's not my intentions. Just wanna find out how you're getting over 2600 fps and 1800 plus ft.lbs. That's 30-30 territory. I know everyone says the x39 is just like a 30-30, but this just isn't true from the testing I've done. Thanks, Zach
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2012 11:48:49 GMT -8
Fluted Bull- What size barrel are you talking about running the x39's in? Just wondering cuz of the numbers you posted for velocity and energy. In my data I have 123's doing between 2300 and 2400ish. Energy around 1500 ft.lbs. I don't mean to start an argument, that's not my intentions. Just wanna find out how you're getting over 2600 fps and 1800 plus ft.lbs. That's 30-30 territory. I know everyone says the x39 is just like a 30-30, but this just isn't true from the testing I've done. Thanks, Zach The numbers you are referring to are the 6.8SPC and not the 7.62x39. The 7.62x39 will do around 2,380's-90's with 122 wolf performance ammo out of a 16" upper. Not bad for a very affordable round but, like the blackout, obviously limited in range due to the poor ballistics and lack of speed. Check the charts again. It might be the colors in your screen.
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zj762
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Post by zj762 on Dec 12, 2012 4:47:14 GMT -8
1shotzero- I was referring to the second post in the thread.
-Zach
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2012 12:15:24 GMT -8
Sorry mate. yes that is amazing! 308 bullets loaded with plutonium 14 I guess. LOL.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2012 14:58:32 GMT -8
Here some updated charts from tested commercial ammunition. All from 16" barrels. Still I need to add the 6.5LBC. The lines stop when bullets get into the subsonic range. I don't put win drift as this is proportional to the speed/range equation so poor ballistic performers like the 7.62x39 and the blackout will have substantial wind drift along with the drop. Speeds in case one is interested... Energy... (sorry for the typo the range is in x100 yards)
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Dec 12, 2012 15:46:47 GMT -8
Interesting stuff. I always have trouble looking at them and making much sense as the parameters picked usually are not anything I would use in the real world. I, personally, would likely never shoot a 16" anything unless it was a 22. I did have a 16" 6 PPC that was a boomer but that was a $75.00 experiment. Looking at energy/velocity I would limit myself to no more than 300 yards with some of those on anything decent size and some I wouldn't poke past two hundred on anything bigger than a coyote. Not that I can't hit but it just won't do the job IMHO. I'm hitting 500 yards all day ling with the 6X45, 6X68 and 243 LBC yet for deer sized animals I would limit the first to 250 and the other two to 350 or 400. The 6X45 will shoot past 300 easily with 87-95's and I have shot hundreds of them at 500 and am just waiting to get on some at 1000 for punching paper. The 243 LBC is my latest choice and since I can push 'em harder that pays off in wind drift since I'm using the same bullets in all three. I have a 264 on order that will give me another option though those 123+ bullets are HUGE!! Greg
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zj762
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Post by zj762 on Dec 13, 2012 4:57:52 GMT -8
Sorry mate. yes that is amazing! 308 bullets loaded with plutonium 14 I guess. LOL. Figured they must of been some premium unobtanium. Lol -Zach
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