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Post by eisenochs on Dec 9, 2012 23:43:07 GMT -8
Yes, you can thank stress (almost at finals week, and all my projects are due this week-- being an engineering major isn't easy!) and lack of sleep for this one. So, I'm already thinking about doing a "medium" AR build. 308 is the obvious first thing to mind, but I noticed that a lot of the stuff out on the market uses a 16" or 20" barrel, which, to my calculations, doesn't allow the cartridge to get anywhere close to its real potential velocity-- or at least to the point of "vanishing returns"... So I was wondering if anyone has tried necking-up a .308 cartridge to accept a .323 (aka 8mm) bullet. Not only would this give you some heavier "oomph" (the 3 most common bullet weights for a .323 are 180gr, 200gr, and 220gr), but I'm thinking that the wider bore would also allow a more complete burn of the powder from the cartridge, thus losing fewer fps per inch of shortening the barrel. Proponents of 6.8SPCII over the 5.56x45 also follow this logic as it applies to 16" and 14.5" carbine AR's. This is also why my 21" carbine (a CZ-550 Full Stock) loses little in performance compared to the standard 24" barrels in the 9.3x62 Mauser (a champion cartridge for Elk or Bear!) chambering. Now that Winchester has made a .325WSM, 8mm bullets have seen a slight increase in popularity. I think this will continue if a bullet maker can find the cajones to make a 240gr bullet in that caliber... This cartridge would also need a really cool name. I think Alexander Arms was onto something when they named their cartridges "Beowulf" and "Grendel." So... my favorite song is "Orion" by Metallica (Master of Puppets, 1986). Orion was a hunter, and this could easily be a good cartridge for a carbine rifle for deer, elk, or black bear. In the mountainous region of Western Pennsylvania, that would be a handy firearm. I'm liking the sound of ".323 Orion" myself!  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2012 7:27:23 GMT -8
Yes, you can thank stress (almost at finals week, and all my projects are due this week-- being an engineering major isn't easy!) and lack of sleep for this one. So, I'm already thinking about doing a "medium" AR build. 308 is the obvious first thing to mind, but I noticed that a lot of the stuff out on the market uses a 16" or 20" barrel, which, to my calculations, doesn't allow the cartridge to get anywhere close to its real potential velocity-- or at least to the point of "vanishing returns"... So I was wondering if anyone has tried necking-up a .308 cartridge to accept a .323 (aka 8mm) bullet. Not only would this give you some heavier "oomph" (the 3 most common bullet weights for a .323 are 180gr, 200gr, and 220gr), but I'm thinking that the wider bore would also allow a more complete burn of the powder from the cartridge, thus losing fewer fps per inch of shortening the barrel. Proponents of 6.8SPCII over the 5.56x45 also follow this logic as it applies to 16" and 14.5" carbine AR's. This is also why my 21" carbine (a CZ-550 Full Stock) loses little in performance compared to the standard 24" barrels in the 9.3x62 Mauser (a champion cartridge for Elk or Bear!) chambering. Now that Winchester has made a .325WSM, 8mm bullets have seen a slight increase in popularity. I think this will continue if a bullet maker can find the cajones to make a 240gr bullet in that caliber... This cartridge would also need a really cool name. I think Alexander Arms was onto something when they named their cartridges "Beowulf" and "Grendel." So... my favorite song is "Orion" by Metallica (Master of Puppets, 1986). Orion was a hunter, and this could easily be a good cartridge for a carbine rifle for deer, elk, or black bear. In the mountainous region of Western Pennsylvania, that would be a handy firearm. I'm liking the sound of ".323 Orion" myself! First I won't say this would not be possible. But I think it is highly unlikely that a barrel manufacturer would venture out on a project like this. Because of the cost of tooling, testing and marketing it would be a gamble with high stakes. The 8mm bore has never really gone anywhere in the U.S. If it were done in Europe it would be a success, but here, not so much. For some reason the .338 has taken off and the .323 has not. Maybe it is because it is so close to the .308 who knows. |
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Post by blopez50 on Dec 10, 2012 11:00:53 GMT -8
^ The first thing I thought of when I read this was the 338 Fed.
It's not a .323 but would fit the bill nicely!
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Post by joebush on Dec 10, 2012 12:31:25 GMT -8
Another interesting wildcat in this vein is the .375-08.
Also I believe that the .300 SAUM will fit in an AR-10 style platform. 8mm SAUM could be quite interesting, or for that matter .375 SAUM. That would be the one to call Orion. You would be looking at around 100fps slower than 375 H&H in a semi auto AR style platform.
Joe
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Post by eisenochs on Dec 10, 2012 12:47:38 GMT -8
Another interesting wildcat in this vein is the .375-08. Also I believe that the .300 SAUM will fit in an AR-10 style platform. 8mm SAUM could be quite interesting, or for that matter .375 SAUM. That would be the one to call Orion. You would be looking at around 100fps slower than 375 H&H in a semi auto AR style platform. Joe Sounds like a cool idea, but I get the feeling that the WSM and SAUM cartridges are probably a little too wide for a regular AR platform. |
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Post by eisenochs on Dec 10, 2012 12:54:22 GMT -8
First I won't say this would not be possible. But I think it is highly unlikely that a barrel manufacturer would venture out on a project like this. Because of the cost of tooling, testing and marketing it would be a gamble with high stakes. The 8mm bore has never really gone anywhere in the U.S. If it were done in Europe it would be a success, but here, not so much. For some reason the .338 has taken off and the .323 has not. Maybe it is because it is so close to the .308 who knows. The reason I picked the .323 was because it effectively splits the difference between .308 and .338. The 180gr and 200gr are weights the .323 shares with the .308, while the 220gr is very close to a weight shared with the .338. As a guy who "cut his teeth" on his grandfather's sporterized Mauser Karabiner (8x57-IS caliber), I guess I've always had a soft spot for the 8mm. |
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Post by joebush on Dec 10, 2012 13:00:39 GMT -8
DPMS sold .300 SAUM AR-10 style rifles. I am pretty sure there was no need to modify the lower. Magazine capacity was significantly diminished, but if you are talking about a hunting rifle, 4 in the box and 1 in the tube should be plenty.
OAL 2.825
Joe
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Post by Master Yoda on Dec 10, 2012 22:33:22 GMT -8
Hello:
It is not so strange to make a 300 R Saum we make these barrels for tactical ammunition and we took an elk at 700 yards, with one shot, on video, a few weeks back.
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Post by joebush on Dec 11, 2012 7:45:48 GMT -8
Carl,
Thanks for posting. Is there any way you could link to that video?
I am curious, how difficult is it to bore a different size barrel? For example, to bore a barrel to .375, a size you currently do not offer.
Joe
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2012 12:27:40 GMT -8
I don't see anything wrong with a 308w in 20". This has been used to take the largest game with 180gr soft points at moderate ranges.
A 338 Federal will deliver an even nicer dose of medication from a 20" barrel. That is as far as you want to go with the 308w casing. The 358 will allow faster powders and a 16"- 18" barrel but will not deliver more energy than the 338. The 338 has a very nice bullet assortment growing now every day. The .308 department doesn't need any introduction.
There are some wider wildcats out there but I don't thin they bring anything radically new to the table.
my 2 cents.
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