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Post by lkrbuilder13 on Jul 31, 2013 18:32:49 GMT -8
I have heard of people saying crimp, and no crimp on rifle loading. I have only crimped pistol bullets and never have done rifle bullets. I have been loading for about five years and have had good results in doing so. I was just wondering why crimp if you don't have to?
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jul 31, 2013 18:57:48 GMT -8
I have heard of people saying crimp, and no crimp on rifle loading. I have only crimped pistol bullets and never have done rifle bullets. I have been loading for about five years and have had good results in doing so. I was just wondering why crimp if you don't have to? In deed, you don't. Look at the groups posted by Ritch and me. We don't crimp. Greg |
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djmfl
Senior Member
Posts: 118
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Post by djmfl on Jul 31, 2013 19:08:17 GMT -8
This is one of those topics that is really based preference and experience. I've noticed that a very light crimp, say on the light recoiling caliber like 223/5.56 can help tighten up a group. For this round, I use a Lee Precision tapper crimp die. I find them to be uniform and easier to use and adjust than, say a Dillon die. You may wonder how much tighter is the group. I've gone from groups of less than a dime to one of an over sized bullet hole at 100 yards. That's with a 24" BHW bull barrel.
Other just as experienced competitive shooters, Greg (prostaffer and some one I greatly respect) for example, doesn't use a crimp I believe.
I think it's what you are accustomed to doing and find that it works. Might be a mind game but I can honestly say every shooter on teams I've shot on all used a very light crump. I don't use a crimp on my 264 LBC. I've not found it to be very effective with or without a crimp and I've shoo it plenty - both ways.
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Aug 1, 2013 12:06:36 GMT -8
My answer before was a bit short but I can show where crimp does effect the grouping. The biggest stumbling block is HOW MUCH?? When you swap brass or times fired everything is different. We use bushing dies because we want XXXX case neck tension and adjust accordingly with the bushings. I won't go into the formula here. When you crimp you deal with longer/shorter necks, thicker/thinner necks and more/less work hardening.
I have a tool that sets up crimping in FT/LBS so you can adjust how much you apply to the neck. I have seen rifles shoot 0.5" to 1.5" based on crimp pressure. Mine is repeatable but takes a bit of time. I have three huge write ups over on AR15ARMORY but if you Google Consistent Crimp Tool pull them up and look at the testimonials. I'm on there with a few links to my work. You will see from Zero to 50 FT/LBS of crimp on cartridges and see the groups move in and out and in location all with the same load but different crimp pressure applied with a LEE Factory Crimp Die.
The neck tension on standard proper dies will hold the bullet during loading. If it doesn't you have a die issue most of the time. 90% of the time the regular dies overwork the brass and over tension it so I go to bushings when I can now.
Greg
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Post by lkrbuilder13 on Aug 1, 2013 18:30:54 GMT -8
When using the redding dies it doesn't use an expander ball correct? Is there still a decapping pin in the sizing die? I like to be consistent but I am not a competition shooter by any means. If I was to do a 20 prac would I have to mess around turning necks? I have 3000 or so of win/wcc brass that is wanting something in it so I am trying to figure out what else I want to build.
Brian
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Aug 1, 2013 18:56:41 GMT -8
When using the redding dies it doesn't use an expander ball correct? Is there still a decapping pin in the sizing die? I like to be consistent but I am not a competition shooter by any means. If I was to do a 20 prac would I have to mess around turning necks? I have 3000 or so of win/wcc brass that is wanting something in it so I am trying to figure out what else I want to build. Brian Redding dies can be use with an expander ball if you choose. You would set the bushing up to barely size below the final desired size and then pull the expander back through the neck. This would take care of inconsistency in the neck thickness but if the brass is good it is not needed. The 20 Practical reamers are designed to be a no-turn neck. Run what ever 223/556 you have in the die and wallah a 20 Practical. The 20 LBC is a total neck turn deal though........don't EVEN think about going there. Your options with that brass are great. 6X45 and 25X45 come to mind but 25X45 dies are rare as hens teeth. The 6X45 is the handloader/wildcatter dream cartridge for deer killing. I'm going to do a 25X45 for the experience and challenge later this year but I have to get some dies custom altered to make it work. Greg |
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Post by lkrbuilder13 on Aug 1, 2013 19:48:11 GMT -8
When using the redding dies it doesn't use an expander ball correct? Is there still a decapping pin in the sizing die? I like to be consistent but I am not a competition shooter by any means. If I was to do a 20 prac would I have to mess around turning necks? I have 3000 or so of win/wcc brass that is wanting something in it so I am trying to figure out what else I want to build. Brian Redding dies can be use with an expander ball if you choose. You would set the bushing up to barely size below the final desired size and then pull the expander back through the neck. This would take care of inconsistency in the neck thickness but if the brass is good it is not needed. The 20 Practical reamers are designed to be a no-turn neck. Run what ever 223/556 you have in the die and wallah a 20 Practical. The 20 LBC is a total neck turn deal though........don't EVEN think about going there. Your options with that brass are great. 6X45 and 25X45 come to mind but 25X45 dies are rare as hens teeth. The 6X45 is the handloader/wildcatter dream cartridge for deer killing. I'm going to do a 25X45 for the experience and challenge later this year but I have to get some dies custom altered to make it work. Greg I have got the 6x45, I wish I knew more about the bushing dies before I got my dies for that. But IH well what is another set of dies. Here after a week or so I will have a couple of weeks that won't be so hectic so I will be able to load and even shoot. Yay. |
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