lerms
Senior Member
Posts: 113
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Post by lerms on Dec 4, 2015 19:47:57 GMT -8
So I was prepping brass today when I relized I wasn't sure if the ladder test I did last time at the range was the right and best way to test bullets and powders. I loaded 10 rounds of the lowest amount of powder I was using and then moved up .5 grains at a time and loaded 10 rounds each until I was at the max load for that powder and bullet weight. Ended up shooting 50 rounds of the same powder and bullet just to find out the lowest amount of powder was the best load. I don't care about how many shots it takes, I shoot over 5000 rounds out of my 556's a year, but I'm new to reloading and want to be able to dail it in sooner then later. All bullets were seated at a coal of 2.30 witch brings me to my next question, If I load all the same rounds again but set a different distance to the lands it would change all the results Right? So how do you do a ladder test and with powders and distance to the lands in the least amount of shots? Or should I just load a few hundred of all the possibilities and kill the hell out of paper? I'm sure I maybe over doing the reloading process, you tell me. First I clean the brass then resize and deprime then clean again after that I swag and uniform the primer pocket and flash hole, trim debur and chamfer and chamfer the inside of the flashole once all that is done I seat the primer and you know the rest... To much? To little? The rifle in question is shooting great, I average .365 thousands with 5 shot groups with the best of my first handloads. But I did the same with the high end Nosler ammo I had. (cost more then the reloads) So I'm not upset with anything just want to make sure I'm going about this right and not just putting wasted lead and copper down range when I could be doing it better. Lerms sorry for any typo's and misspelled words I'm typing this on a tablet with a very small bluetooth keyboard. Kids sleeping in my computer room  |
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Post by devildogandboy on Dec 5, 2015 4:37:42 GMT -8
lerms, google up Dan Newberry's OCW, this works for me. Dan Newberry's Optimal Charge Weight Load Development
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Dec 5, 2015 7:03:36 GMT -8
I'm don't do OCW as it should be done but do shoot evaluate my targets looking at movement of groups from one charge to another. Ideally the further you can shoot the better data you will get IF you have the skills and range available. The OCW is really a variation of the true Ladder Test and those are best done at 300 yards or so. The system works well for many but my range is limited to 200 at best so I do all mine at 100.
I take one bullet and three powders. Load ten at three charge weights on each bullet. Shoot two groups back to back with each and then evaluate.. All rounds go over a chronograph. I tack all my loads with an EXCEL sheet I made up. If I have some great groups that seem consistent I load 0.1 on each side. My jumps on small cases are 0.3 grains. 0.5 on bigger ones.
Variation on bullet depth will often yield better or worse groups. No guarantee if it will be the same from one bullet to the next as a 100 Sierra is different than a 100 Speer so no magic numbers are present. Pressures vary as the bullets are moved also that is another component of the equation to consider.
Brass prep for me in order on once fired:
1. Deprime
2. Swage/cut pockets
3. Deburr flash hole.(OPTIONAL)
4. Polish
5. Size - measure
6. Chamfer mouths.
7. Load
I will use Hornady One Shot Lube for bug quantities and just wipe the loaded rounds down with rubbing alcohol. Imperial for small numbers.
On my good stuff I also uniform primer pockets after I polish them. I'll size at that point, trim and chamfer and then throw them in the tumbler to make sure I have no brass chips in the case.
Greg
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lerms
Senior Member
Posts: 113
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Post by lerms on Dec 5, 2015 8:14:10 GMT -8
lerms, google up Dan Newberry's OCW, this works for me. Dan Newberry's Optimal Charge Weight Load Development That was a good read. Thanks devildogandboy. I bookmarked the page to use as a reference later. Greg, I'm about to load up some 69gn SMK's I wanted to test H335, IMR4895 and Ram Tac. Looking at what your saying when loading the H335 three of my manuals say 24 is the max and 22 is the lowest, so I should load 3 rounds at 22 grains, 23 grains and 24 grains. And what ever one shoots the best for example say the 22 grain load I should then load 3 more rounds at 21.7 grains and 22.3 grains? I've been shooting lately at 100 yards, our other range is under construction but when done I believe we'll have 300 yards back. A few times a year I make it back to Michigan and then I have a private 1500 Yard range all to myself. I'm still trying to decide on what chronograph to get. With the range that is open atm the magnetospeed would be the best choice since the first 25 yards is shot trough a cement tube and any wires would be out of the question. However the V3 is damn expensive and from what I've read the sporter isn't a very good chronograph. thanks again for any help Lerms |
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Dec 5, 2015 11:12:01 GMT -8
lerms, google up Dan Newberry's OCW, this works for me. Dan Newberry's Optimal Charge Weight Load Development That was a good read. Thanks devildogandboy. I bookmarked the page to use as a reference later. Greg, I'm about to load up some 69gn SMK's I wanted to test H335, IMR4895 and Ram Tac. Looking at what your saying when loading the H335 three of my manuals say 24 is the max and 22 is the lowest, so I should load 3 rounds at 22 grains, 23 grains and 24 grains. And what ever one shoots the best for example say the 22 grain load I should then load 3 more rounds at 21.7 grains and 22.3 grains? I've been shooting lately at 100 yards, our other range is under construction but when done I believe we'll have 300 yards back. A few times a year I make it back to Michigan and then I have a private 1500 Yard range all to myself. I'm still trying to decide on what chronograph to get. With the range that is open atm the magnetospeed would be the best choice since the first 25 yards is shot trough a cement tube and any wires would be out of the question. However the V3 is damn expensive and from what I've read the sporter isn't a very good chronograph. thanks again for any help Lerms You've kind of combined them. OCW purist would probably do (based on 24 MAX) three rounds each at 24, 23.7, 23.4,23.1 an 22.9. Shot on to five targets round robin. The longer the range the better if you can do your part and IF the rifle can. We obviously aren't dealing with rack grade spray and pray here so you are GTG in that department. Select the ones that seem to group close to the same POI and the one in the middle is the go to as the measure can throw + or - and you will be in the sweet spot. If I were doing that I would go shoot the exercise twice for verification. I would definitely take the selected load and go shoot five five shot groups with it on the next trip. The first could have been a fluke and that is why I would shoot the whole thing twice. You have two powders so the day at the range initially would involve firing 30 rounds between the two. My approach would be grab the two powders. (I'll use H335 here). I would load ten each at 24, 23.5 and 23 (30 rounds) I would shoot two groups of five at each level. If I was industrious and pressed for time I would shoot one five shot group each at 24, 23.7 23.4 and 23.1. (20 rounds) I will look at them and will usually find one charge that is outstanding and one close to it that is OK but not a record setter. I'll return next trip with ten loaded 0.1 above, ten on the charge and ten 0.1 lower. Once I get THE load I'll go shoot the 5X5. On new guns I try to get fifty or one hundred fired cases available after the first trip. I do prefer five shots but I will settle for three shot groups in some cases. One being a barrel burner like the 20-250 I am working with or if I am just in a hurry an looking for proof of concept like the American 30 where we shot hundred, and I mean hundreds, of load combinations. Of course I do cheat as Ritch and I trade data so we don't have to shoot for MV's on different powders blindly. We learn what to not bother with and save components. As an example my 243 LBC 500/1000 yard load was picked in thirty rounds with ten more for verification before I took it to the Senior Olympics and won a silver shooting the rifle for the first time and no practice for about 18 months at 500 yards. The V3 would have to be the top end one for me but with the raw data the rest can be handled easily enough with the Sport. The use where you are at almost dictates one. I would be concerned about true grouping with it on my barrel but I am bit of a skeptic. I use a CED Millineum for all of my work. It comes down to how much time and choice in components you have. Deciding what is "good enough" or rifle capable is important. An AR with a BHW barrel is muy bueno but no Panda actioned 6 PPC. Greg |
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