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Post by tonythetiger on Jul 3, 2016 11:03:29 GMT -8
I've seen a few pictures here and there and maybe a vague reference or two on this site about cutting a slot in the front of a steel mag to load longer than the 2.31 +/- you can stuff into an ASC mag. My Google skills aren't turning up any solid information about this regarding preferred mags to sacrifice, reliability after cutting, cut size etc.
I've got a BHW 223 barrel on the way and I'd really like to try pushing the limits of the 223 at longer ranges without single loading. The 75gr Amax is the bullet I'd like to make work, I've heard of people running it at 2.31" but it seems that seating depth may still be a bit short in relation to the ogives location vs. the case neck. In theory a cut mag and an OAL around 2.35" sounds better and is closer to Hornady datas 2.39" length given for bolt gun loads. Plus getting the bullet closer to the lands is usually not a bad thing.
Thoughts? Opinions? Experience?
Thanks in advance.
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jul 3, 2016 13:49:47 GMT -8
I've seen a few pictures here and there and maybe a vague reference or two on this site about cutting a slot in the front of a steel mag to load longer than the 2.31 +/- you can stuff into an ASC mag. My Google skills aren't turning up any solid information about this regarding preferred mags to sacrifice, reliability after cutting, cut size etc. I've got a BHW 223 barrel on the way and I'd really like to try pushing the limits of the 223 at longer ranges without single loading. The 75gr Amax is the bullet I'd like to make work, I've heard of people running it at 2.31" but it seems that seating depth may still be a bit short in relation to the ogives location vs. the case neck. In theory a cut mag and an OAL around 2.35" sounds better and is closer to Hornady datas 2.39" length given for bolt gun loads. Plus getting the bullet closer to the lands is usually not a bad thing. Thoughts? Opinions? Experience? Thanks in advance. You can cut them down to hold 7-8 rounds. 2.4 isn't hard to reach for many. Not a big deal. Lots of pictures on the net on what they look like. Just figure out what 5/6 rounds goes down to in the body, lay out a cut line that will allow the tips some L/R clearance and go for it. Realize that all official long range stuff in NRA, HP and F-Class, is shot single shot. This would be ideal for a low round count match or certain hunting applications. SS ASC magazines allow up to 2.316 nominal so unless you are going for the gusto it may not be worthwhile. Ritch has shot some windowed standard magazines as have I. No big deal. I run 9MM in 38 Super magazines on some lead bullets so I can laod long but that is a different world. Be advised that when he, Ritch, designs a reamer he strives to get the distance to lands set up that it can be reached at magazine length in many cases with usable bullets. Obviously the 223 is not one of them. Greg |
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Post by tonythetiger on Jul 3, 2016 15:22:38 GMT -8
Thanks for the info Greg.
I have other shooting sports I compete in and stress out about, so long range plinking and load development is my way of actually having fun with guns, so no formal matches planned for this build. I know 223 is not ideal but given the political climate and some other logistics issues I've decided to keep working with the calibers I have components for, so 223 it is. I've been having a lot of fun shooting 75gr hpbt's out to 1050yds lately with a 16" barrel and a 1-6x scope and I thought it would be interesting to push the same cartridge in a more purpose built rifle. I haven't seen many people really try to throw it way out there so I decided it would be a fun experiment to try.
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jul 3, 2016 16:04:33 GMT -8
Thanks for the info Greg. I have other shooting sports I compete in and stress out about, so long range plinking and load development is my way of actually having fun with guns, so no formal matches planned for this build. I know 223 is not ideal but given the political climate and some other logistics issues I've decided to keep working with the calibers I have components for, so 223 it is. I've been having a lot of fun shooting 75gr hpbt's out to 1050yds lately with a 16" barrel and a 1-6x scope and I thought it would be interesting to push the same cartridge in a more purpose built rifle. I haven't seen many people really try to throw it way out there so I decided it would be a fun experiment to try. A simple reamer order and a 'smith can get you set up for magazine length stuff just like the DCM boys do. It won't be a BHW but it will be purpose built.Now the caveat I will put out front. Anyone that builds a rifle around one bullet is not only a fool but someone almost certainly destined to be sad. The guys that did that before the panic a few years ago bit the big wally when Hornady stopped producing their match bullet for their rifle. An alternate was needed and many guys had never addressed that issue. I've never found Sierras to mind a jump and would not hesitate to run them way off the lands. Closer on them is often only marginally batter if at all in my experience across all the things I've shot in four decades of competition. Greg |
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Post by tonythetiger on Jul 3, 2016 18:46:51 GMT -8
Yeah I'm not married to any one bullet yet, I just have too much time to run numbers on JBM while I wait for the barrel. The Amax looks like a winner on paper especially when you factor in price, but I won't be heartbroken if the barrel doesn't like it. I'm curious what seating the bullets longer will do for my available case capacity and how pressure signs will be affected by seating long and trying for a little extra speed. Won't know till I get there though.
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Post by warriorscholar on Jun 27, 2017 16:32:30 GMT -8
I've used 27g of 2000MR over 75/77g bullets for years including High Power competition with much luck. This setup works in my 16" 3 gun as well out to 600y. In my 20" NM you'll get 2840ish fps which is good enough for 1000y work here at 900ft of elevation of you use Tipped Match Kings.
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Post by tonythetiger on Jun 27, 2017 17:47:17 GMT -8
Forgot all about this thread. I experimented cutting aluminum mags, not a good idea, they are quite flimsy when cut and may open up and shoot rounds out at any time. The ASC SS mags are awesome to cut, I have a couple 20 rounders cut to hold 15 rounds and they work perfect. I did give up entirely on the Amax I mentioned above, and it's offspring the 75gr ELD. They would both shoot 3 rounds close together with the other two in a different zip code. I only tried a couple different powders and not a lot of seating depths but I don't have the time or patience to make a disagreeable bullet work.
The 73 ELD's have been awesome though. At 2.35" with 23.8gr of 8208 in LC brass I'm getting about 2930 fps and .6-.8 MOA, sometimes better but the average is right around .7.
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Post by warriorscholar on Jun 28, 2017 16:55:35 GMT -8
Very nice. I haven't picked up any .224 ELDs yet as I'm still shooting my stock of HPBT and TMK. I have seen them on the shelves though. Might have to try some.
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