Seeking Advice on 24" vs 18" or 20" for 264LBC

[joebana]

I made a call to BHW today to check stock availability for 264 LBC barrels. I was specifically looking for a 24" match profile barrel. While speaking with Lisa, I asked if 24" barrels were a normally stocked item. Interestingly, she said that for the 264 LBC crowd, 24" barrels are not requested as much as 18" or 20".

Im a novice to long range shooting, so Im curious about why there are few requests for 24" barrel lengths. I was planning to build my 1st project using a 24" match profile barrel, so I guess I better get some advice from those who know.

Is there a disadvantage going with 24" barrels, other than weight? Isnt choosing 264LBC about shooting long range?

Isnt there a substantial loss in velocity and energy dropping down to 18" from 24" barrels?



Thanks for any pointers,

Joe

[djmfl]

The .264 LBC and the 6.5 you know what (being virtually the same round) reach their primary performance in a 20" or longer barrel. While the loss in an 18" barrel will be slight, it will be quite noticeable when shooting at longer ranges (beyond 300 yards). In my opinion, this is a wonderful long range cartridge and really shines when you're reaching way out there. I've ordered my BHW barrel in 24", .264LBC, to be mounted on a new BHW left handed upper.

My shooting buddy has a 6.5 you know what, and he has a 26". It is absolutely deadly at 1000 yards. The wonderful thing about this round is that when shooting longer ranges, the recoil is low enough to see the impact of your round. A great thing when shooting Prairie Dogs. It is something you can't do with a 308.

[letaz77]

Aug 5, 2011 15:46:06 GMT -8 joebana said:

why there are few requests for 24" barrel lengths.

Is there a disadvantage going with 24" barrels, other than weight? Isnt choosing 264LBC about shooting long range?

Isnt there a substantial loss in velocity and energy dropping down to 18" from 24" barrels?

I guess the main reason why the 24" barrels are not the first choice are as follows: 1st the added weight - if you are using it for a field rifle which you will carry with you much of the day it will take a toll. 2nd It is not as easy to handle as a shorter barrel - if you have to swing the weapon to firing position it will take a little longer to acquire the target than a system with a shorter barrel (that is the reason why our arm forces are switching to 16" or 14.5" M4, rather than keeping the M16).

The 264LBC is indeed all about long range and terminal performance...you can still hit targets 1000yds away with a 20" barrel which is easier to maneuver when in the bush and is lighter than the 24" counter part.

I believe I read somewhere that the lost of MV per barrel inch is about 50fps. In other words you will roughly have a delta (difference) of 300fps MV between an 18" and a 24" barrel.

At the end of the day, the rifle barrel length you choose will be determined by your personal preference and by the purpose you plan use this particular rifle for. Just my .02 cents

Erick

[joebana]

Thank you for the feedback.

My intention for the 24" barrel is for long range varminting >600yds.

My current long range patform is a ruger m77 bull barrel profile in .243 win. I wasnt thrilled carrying that thing over 5 acres of corn field in 80F heat, so any weight reduction is welcome.

There is a 16" 264LBC listed in the forum, a really good deal. I was thinking about building a carbine upper and just swapping uppers for the mission at hand.

[GLSHOOTER]

Aug 6, 2011 19:33:37 GMT -8 joebana said:

Thank you for the feedback.

My intention for the 24" barrel is for long range varminting >600yds.

My current long range patform is a ruger m77 bull barrel profile in .243 win. I wasnt thrilled carrying that thing over 5 acres of corn field in 80F heat, so any weight reduction is welcome.

There is a 16" 264LBC listed in the forum, a really good deal. I was thinking about building a carbine upper and just swapping uppers for the mission at hand.

There's an idea! The military could switch from 5.56 to .264LBC and give fire teams the ability to quickly switch between short and long range engagements using the same 123gr projectiles!

The varmint in question could have some influence on your choice. If you are talking prairie dogs that is one thing but if you want to start whacking coyotes out there then the big boy bullets will work. I know that a good BC and velocity are your friend in reaching out on PD's way out there.

I shoot 20 Tacticals and 204's with 24-26" barrels and 223 and 6X45's with 20" tubes. I don't think the short tube makes a huge difference but the speed available is a big deal to me. I think a 22" would be the way to go on a small bore.

If I were shooting a 264 for big varmints I would we happy with using the best BC I could lay my hands on. Unfortunately those big bullets aren't set up to blow up at lower velocities so the 600 yard stuff will be a tad marginal on smaller targets that offer little resistance. The big thing, to me, would be what barrel gives me the absolute best accuracy and no matter what barrel length you get a hand load will probably be the only way to extract the best performance out of it.

Just my thoughts.

Greg

[letaz77]

Couldn't have said it better, Greg.....No wonder you get paid the big bucks ;D

[hawsepiper]

I have a 18", and love the weight and feel for a yote/deer gun. If I were going after pd's at some distance I would have opted for a 20" or 22". Sorry I can't give any chrono info as I haven't started reloading for it yet but it is grouping excellent with Hornady factory 123 gr A-Maxs. This may not help you out in the long range department but accuracy in the 18" BHW barrel is definitely there. Good luck.

[heavy65]

I had the same question as the OP. I'm looking for an AR15 barrel in 264 LBC, and am torn between 18 and 20 lengths.

The intended game is:
- white-tailed deer at 600 yards from a "bench"
- deer at 75-125 yards, offhand
- hogs at 125 yards, supported

About 75% of my time hunting is spent stalking (i.e. not in a blind) and being able to make quick offhand shots important to me. On the other hand, I would like the performance in 6.5G to take a deer at 600 yards. Absolute maximum range would be 750, but that's when I start reaching for a larger platform.

I really like the idea of an 18" barrel because:
- mid length gas system option is desirable to me because of its place in the lineup between carbine, but also because of lighter weight
- the intended muzzle brake (WCI) wil bring the overall length back up to 22

On the other hand, will those two inches sacrifice too much for 600 yard, 123 grain shots? Ultimately I would be happy with either length, but would prefer something as light as possible while still being able to reach out to 600. Is that the 18? Or should I stick to the 20?

[GLSHOOTER]

My vote would be a 20 but then if I intended to reach out that far on a living target I would want a 24". It is so hard to split the difference on up close and personal and way out in the next zip code. I have shot 308's with barrels from 18" to 26" and found that for me a 22" gave me more consistent hits than the 18". There is no substitute for velocity when it comes to down range energy if you can't bump the bullet weight.

Admittedly knowing the exact range to target makes things a whole lot easier in hitting a target. I have seen a few places where you could set up at known distances on live game. Of course I would have resident range flags or pre-lasered distances and a range card just like I do with my M/O students with all the necessary come ups.

Keep us posted on your choice.

Greg

[letaz77]

+1 on the 20" and plus if you are going for 600yds on a live target. I believe 20" is a great compromise and the deference in weight with the 18" is negligible. Remember, you can always flute the barrel, use light hand guards, and install skeletonized butt-stocks to reduce the weight.

One of the main things a person learns in long range shooting is to know one's limitations and those of the equipment being used. With an accurately placed shoot on a deer at 600yds you'll probably have a clean kill, but there are way too many variables at play for me to pull the trigger comfortably.

IMHO at those distances you might want to have a caliber with more ump than 264LBC/6.5Grendel. I would suggest 260 Rem and above.....Just my opinion.

[Brandon Sneed]

Small but in topic hijack:

Any one shoot the Hornady SST in the 1/9 twist yet?

[heavy65]

Thanks for the opinions guys, it is really helpful.

On Tuesday I was out hunting with a friend. We were in the woods but relatively in the open, relying more on camo than cover. An eight-point trotted through after a while, and my friend was able to take him offhand with a perfect shot, despite him moving quickly and erratically across our field of view as he bounded through the underbrush to get wherever he was hoping to go. We were expecting slow-moving, grazing game at ~100-150 yards, but got a quick one at ~25 instead, with a very small window to take a shot and plenty of obstacles around breaking that window up. My friend's light AR 223 carbine helped him make that quick shot very accurately, and I was reminded again of the usefulness of having an easy to handle, easy to point field rifle.

And I really want the new Grendel to be just that, an easy to wield field rifle (say that ten times fast).

Also, at the 750 yard max deer location, I think that I'd simply be better served with an AR-10 (in 6.5 Creedmore ;D ). It would be from a stationary shooting position where weight, carrying or supporting, is not an issue. The optics on the rifle would be appropriate to that range, and overkill for anything less.

There is a third shooting spot as well, for feral hogs up to 250 yards out (assuming plenty of moonlight). 123 grains out of an 18" should be more than sufficient there, shouldn't it?

Another wrinkle that I failed to mention before is what I'd like to hang off the muzzle. Until I get the trust sorted out:

WCI muzzle brake (I have heard many good things): 4"
www.fortune3.com/alexarms/Muzzle_Devices-6.5_Grendel_WCI_9_16-24_Muzzle_Brake.html

After the trust, a YHM suppressor: 8"
yhm.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14_18&products_id=306

So the overall barrel+device length would end up at 22-26" on an 18", or 24-28" on a 20". I want to give the Grendel more legs than a 16" carbine, but I don't want to tip forward onto my knees when I raise the rifle either. I feel like the Grendel is an intermediate cartridge and would fit well onto an intermediate platform.

Does my thought process make any sense? Am I just rambling incoherently at this point? Thanks again for the opinions, it helps to sort out what it is I really need from what I think I want.

[GreenWolf70]

Speaking of muzzle breaks/comps/flash suppressors, is there a Dragon's Head brake for the 264LBC/6.5G?

[flutedbull204]

according to Tactical Ammunition, they should be available this week, as I have ordered on from them last wed, and they said the muzzle brake would be ready this week! I ordered on in the 264.....

[chaos23]

I'm having the same dilemma, and nearly the exact same hunting circumstances. In light of all I've read, I'm leaning towards the 20" as well. Not sure I want to tote a 24" all around the woods.

So, despite not being the OP, I too appreciate all the suggestions!