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Post by knightdive on Dec 27, 2011 22:38:58 GMT -8
I know of at least one major supplier selling the .450 Bushmaster barrels with a bolt. There are .50 Beowulf barrel/bolt combos around too. By available selection of bullet, the .458 SOCOM is the best of the big bore ar rounds out there, but its the hardest to get the barrel for. I'm glad that Rock River is making .458 rifles and helping to keep this wonderful round alive, but I can't say that I have faith in their quality. I am really looking to having a Black Hole .458 (or two three more)! I was lucky enough to get one of Marty's last barrels before his work took him overseas. Rock River has had some qc issues with their chambers in the past but I hope they've been resolved. With luck SBR Ammunition will be producing barrels and bolts for the Socom in the near future, as soon as they can clear up some contract work. Having BHW making barrels and bolts too can only be a good thing for the future of the round. I don't know that any of the thumpers will ever be popular with the masses, but the more people we can infect with the big bore bug, the better. I would definitely build another Socom with a BHW black oxide barrel and I can pretty well guarantee at least one more friend wants into the big bore club. |
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Post by patjsimpson on Dec 28, 2011 15:34:47 GMT -8
I have thought about a .458 SOCOM also... Anyone know how this round works subsonic?
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Post by knightdive on Dec 28, 2011 16:05:45 GMT -8
Subsonic is a popular use for the .458 socom, especially with the heavier bullets up to somewhere in the 600 grain range. The lightest bullets I've heard of being used for subsonic are the Remington 405gn JSP's. SBR sells a couple of subsonic factory loads, but I haven't used any of them. Suppressing the Socom or any of the big bores is a little problematic apparently because of the large bore diameter (Never tried it personally), but there are companies like SBR (Coastal) and Red Creek Tactical that make suppressors for .458 diameter rifles.
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Post by knightdive on Jan 13, 2012 14:36:35 GMT -8
Bump for updates. Seeing an uptick in interest since the sons of guns program, and seeing as SBR is dropping the ball this would be a great time to release the SOCOM. Maybe some good news for SHOT show?
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jan 14, 2012 19:07:28 GMT -8
I guess if you changed the throat angle it would not be a direct copy.. But then if it is a SAAMI cartridge the chamber dimensions are in the public domain. Just ask Alexander Arms now that his Grendel is SAAMI speced.
Greg
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jan 14, 2012 20:40:56 GMT -8
So like the Grendel we end up with a 458 LBC. right? The lack of SAAMI specs only penalizes those that want to sell them. Historically anyone that ties up a cartridge like the Grendel or a few others out there have sold some but they have never caused a big wave of interest. The roots of wildcatting produced so many identical or near identical rounds that it was impossible to count. Ever hear of a Varminter or a Super Pooper? Think 22-250 and 243.
Greg
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Post by The Wolverine on Jan 14, 2012 23:26:04 GMT -8
So like the Grendel we end up with a 458 LBC. right? The lack of SAAMI specs only penalizes those that want to sell them. Historically anyone that ties up a cartridge like the Grendel or a few others out there have sold some but they have never caused a big wave of interest. The roots of wildcatting produced so many identical or near identical rounds that it was impossible to count. Ever hear of a Varminter or a Super Pooper? Think 22-250 and 243. Greg Grendel was trademarked, 458 SOCOM is not, so BHW can call it 458 SOCOM if they want to. |
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jan 15, 2012 8:54:07 GMT -8
So like the Grendel we end up with a 458 LBC. right? The lack of SAAMI specs only penalizes those that want to sell them. Historically anyone that ties up a cartridge like the Grendel or a few others out there have sold some but they have never caused a big wave of interest. The roots of wildcatting produced so many identical or near identical rounds that it was impossible to count. Ever hear of a Varminter or a Super Pooper? Think 22-250 and 243. Greg Grendel was trademarked, 458 SOCOM is not, so BHW can call it that if they want to. That is exactly right and I think there in lies the major difference. Once they got SAAMI for the Grendel AA gave up the trademark rights and now we can all buy Grendels from other places regardless what the stamp on the barrel use to say. Greg |
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Post by smeagol on Jan 15, 2012 16:13:52 GMT -8
I sincerely hope that BlackHole Weaponry will try to contact Marty to straighten this out rather than just making something and disrespecting him. He has done a great honor to our military in attempting to fix the 5.56 problem we have been complaining about since Vietnam. I pray this will one day be a standard military round. As happy as I would be if the .458 SOCOM and .338 Spectre were SAAMI rounds, it is up to Marty to do this. If I had previously known this was at issue, I would have been a bit slower about posting here.
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jan 15, 2012 20:22:08 GMT -8
I sincerely hope that BlackHole Weaponry will try to contact Marty to straighten this out rather than just making something and disrespecting him. He has done a great honor to our military in attempting to fix the 5.56 problem we have been complaining about since Vietnam. I pray this will one day be a standard military round. As happy as I would be if the .458 SOCOM and .338 Spectre were SAAMI rounds, it is up to Marty to do this. If I had previously known this was at issue, I would have been a bit slower about posting here. Disrespect? I don't see how that came up. Did Les Baer disrespect Steve Alexandr by having the temerity to market the LBC? The world is full of wildcats and new cartridges. Hardly disrespectful to make one. Do you really think that a loaded round can't be used to reverse engineer a chamber that would be safe to produce and use? Did S&W disrespect John Browning when they started producing 45 ACP revolvers? Or Marlin disrespected Winchester when the started chambering the 336 in 30-30? I don't. Greg |
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Post by smeagol on Jan 15, 2012 21:45:31 GMT -8
I say disrespect because obviously Marty has takes some measures to protect his idea. It's a free market (in theory), do what you will. I would simply like to feel good about it before I purchase one. That is how capitalism works. BlackHole Weaponry is doing some very cool things. I think you would do better for yourselves to have good relations with the 458 SOCOM inventor/community than not.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2012 6:33:51 GMT -8
I say disrespect because obviously Marty has takes some measures to protect his idea. It's a free market (in theory), do what you will. I would simply like to feel good about it before I purchase one. That is how capitalism works. BlackHole Weaponry is doing some very cool things. I think you would do better for yourselves to have good relations with the 458 SOCOM inventor/community than not. Marty has taken NO measures to protect his idea. If he had registered the name or trademarked the cartridge then he would have been trying to protect it. And just for the sake of discussion why would he want to protect the 458? No one is trying to claim they invented his cartridge. If he wants all the notoriety turn it loose to the world, and let it stand on its own. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2012 12:46:40 GMT -8
 Test BBLs have been drilled for a couple weeks now and are sitting at the Reamer and rifler. Shot show and individual customer orders have been our priority at the moment. They are in process but nothing is being sold until we get our test results back. We aren't even taking pre-orders. |
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Jan 16, 2012 18:42:09 GMT -8
And do you think that TEST barrels are being done MIGHT be a tip off that BHW is aware that not everything works right off the bat? The Pro Staff shoot these barrels and products and until they are proved GTG they won't be making it to the Product list.
The Railed Uppers are a case in point as are some of the LBC chamberings and some of the 20 calibers that they want to build. Dollars to donuts that the Magnum Uppers that are on the horizon will be shot by several of us and if we can break 'em we will. If they perform as expected then they will make it to the hands of the consumers.
The 450/458's are in the same boat. Let's kick back and relax a bit and if they work they work. If they don't they won't be available until they do.
Greg
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Post by smeagol on Jan 16, 2012 18:58:34 GMT -8
Maybe I just have a funny of seeing things, but I don't understand how asking the manufactures of the reamers not to sell them to companies he has no deal with is not an effort to protect his work. As I understand it, all the companies producing it also have a licensing agreement with him. Why would he do this if he had no cares about it? Sure he did not trademark or register anything, but what about good old fashion courtesy? I'm not saying anything bad has been done at this point. I'm just saying cut the possibility of drama of at the pass. My point is simply that it would make things smoother to have some kind of communication with Marty. Even if he does offer it up at SHOT, could it really hurt anything to contact him and consult him about it?
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