New RCBS 6x45 small based die sets

[HuntTXhogs]

I am trying to settle on a sizing die kit for the 6mm/223.

I noticed that new to market this year is RCBS with the AR small based die set #28907. There is a rebate right now as well.

Also notice that they have another small based die set # 28903 which is a Group D AR set.

Besides the huge price difference all I can read at this point for a difference is a roll versus a taper crimp in the seating die.

My previous semi .308 needed a small based die but I used a Lee factory crimp die instead of the RCBS crimp.

I am aware that Hornady and Redding have die sets as well but newer is better, right? RIGHT!?!?!

EDIT:

I see that the Redding would allow for max versatility while it would also probably be the most expensive option to get started with .

The Hornady has a lifetime warranty and comes in 2nd in cost.

And then you have that RCBS AR set for 49 bucks and a 10 dollar rebate to boot.

I may just have to be the guinea on this one...


BB

[GLSHOOTER]

Dec 12, 2011 20:44:33 GMT -8 HuntTXhogs said:

I am trying to settle on a sizing die kit for the 6mm/223.

I noticed that new to market this year is RCBS with the AR small based die set #28907. There is a rebate right now as well.

Also notice that they have another small based die set # 28903 which is a Group D AR set.

Besides the huge price difference all I can read at this point for a difference is a roll versus a taper crimp in the seating die.

My previous semi .308 needed a small based die but I used a Lee factory crimp die instead of the RCBS crimp.

I am aware that Hornady and Redding have die sets as well but newer is better, right? RIGHT!?!?!

BB

Absolutely not need. A set of Hornady ND dies or a Redding FL Type S bushing rig in 223 with 243 bushings is all you need. I've been using Hornady 6X45 dies in 3 of them since the 80's and never had a problem. In fact I've never had an AR that needed them period.

Greg

[HuntTXhogs]

Greg -

What is the story with using 5.56 brass in an AR that is marked 223 ONLY but in this wildcat caliber 6x45mm.

I am assuming that the 5.56's case wall thickness would still be a negative with regards to chamber pressures in the gun even at the upsized neck, also I believe there are slight shoulder differences as well.

Again looking for your experience on this one

BB

[Deleted]

The best 6x45 dies I have are redding. you can get the carbide expander so there is no need for lube inside the necks.
Very consistent high quality loads.
Size the brass as if it was .223, obviously the 6mm neck is the exception. Settle in length and always use the same.
I use the lee case length gauge with the trimmer and have it adapted to run in the RCBS powered station. All prep goes like a breeze and cases end up being carbon copies.
Of cause I segregate the brass by head stamp and weight.

[GLSHOOTER]

Dec 12, 2011 21:06:43 GMT -8 HuntTXhogs said:

Greg -

What is the story with using 5.56 brass in an AR that is marked 223 ONLY but in this wildcat caliber 6x45mm.

I am assuming that the 5.56's case wall thickness would still be a negative with regards to chamber pressures in the gun even at the upsized neck, also I believe there are slight shoulder differences as well.

Again looking for your experience on this one

BB

The 223 ONLY is just a stamp. When you put the 6X45 upper on there that goes away. Most loading data is set up at 223 pressures NOT 556. You can shoot your 556 RELOADS in the 223 chamber and have no issues what so ever in perfect safety. The 223 only stamp is referring the chambering of the barrel to dissuade you from shooting 556 FACTORY ammo in it.

Yes the 556 is thicker inside and the standard length of the case is a tad longer. I fix that by taking mils spec brass and trimming to the regular 1.750 length and you are GTG. Shoulder variation is a non-issue IMHO.

The 556 cases will last a tad longer than the 223 but not enough to make a difference as the brass is so cheap anyway. Shoot it 5 times/trim as needed and sell it as scrap.

Going to a 6 MM bullet in the necked up cases lowers the pressures. If you look at Hodgdon loading data they do a MAX pressure level of the 223 standards. That still lets you shoot a heavier bullet in the 6X45 at the SAME velocity as a 223 lighter bullet with the SAME pressure levels. The big limiter is that when you exceed about 87 grains or so you start eating up case capacity if you are loading mag length. If you chose to go single shot or have some of the mags that will handle longer VLD bullets you are GTG but an AR is not a single shot platform, IMHO, unless you are required to do it in a match. Those magazines are there for a reason and those heavy bullets don't help in the hunting field. Thanks to our new bonded super slugs the 6X45 makes an excellent light deer rifle.

Just my thoughts on this and I'm sure those that are more learned in this subject with less trigger time than I have will chime in and correct me.

Greg

PS: The SLICK way to make 6X45 cases is to size, trim and deburr your 223/556 brass and THEN expand the necks with a 243 expander mandrel from Sinclair. This causes less stress on the necks and will then let you use FL S-Type bushing dies from Redding.

[Deleted]

I agree with GLSHOOTER,
when you reach the 85, 87gr (vmax a great option) then you start to see the performance deteriorating due to lost real state.
Even the traditional mags that offer larger COAL like some old steel, cammenga and some Pmag and others you are limited by that well known limitation.
In any case I think it is a very interesting value proposition since you can make an 85, 87 or even some 90gr an efficient hunting load and nobody should be in need of anything else for average white tail, black bear type of use at moderate ranges.
Even the sometimes controversial 1:10 twist could be very good to send some lighter faster bullets at very good speeds from shorter barrels making this a light, awesome versatile, fun, simple yet effective hunting option.
This is not a casing set to beat any world records but if feels very well the void between the .223 and some of the larger options and also makes it legal in some places where for an inexplicable reason the .223 is not made legal for white tails.

Regarding the longer bullets I think you 1st need to find the max. length for your chamber and then take out .001 or .002 and play with it. You will find this is best with slower powders and a tad more length but not to the point it becomes inefficient, that is wen the powder stops pushing the bullet and then the bullets start to slow down when still inside the bore.

Some folks do not know but this can happen with some 308W conventional loads when shooting from a 24" barrel. So longer doesn't always means more speed. So the best is sometimes to spcialize the purpose of the upper. My believe is that this is less of a concern in the poly barrels as they actual drag induced by the barrel bore is less than other traditional rifling where the grooves act as additional 'brake pads' and affect performance by increasing friction.

I also tried the "magic" H. superperformance ball powder in the 20 inchers and it is useless so I am waiting for a 24" from BH to see if we can send a 95gr VLD a little faster. Even w/o this extra effort the cartrige has achieved everything that one could expect in this platform and like GLSHOOTER says 'cheap cheap' to feed.

I have tried a lot of combinations and still learning from this one. Definitively a fun upper to have, or several of them for that matter.

[HuntTXhogs]

I found a guy on ARXX.com that is processing LC or WCC brass into 6x45mm loadable cases. He, to me, is reasonable on his price for the service so for the first batch of ammo I am going to go this route.

I will still need to seat the bullets, is there a preference here in the BHW community for a seating/crimp die. A single process would be preferred but if I have to get a separate Lee FCD (.243) I will do it.

I am sure some will say they never crimp but I err on the side of caution in most things that have the potential to go Boom or Bang.

Thanks both of you for the good information and references.

BB

[GLSHOOTER]

Dec 13, 2011 17:33:38 GMT -8 HuntTXhogs said:

I found a guy on ARXX.com that is processing LC or WCC brass into 6x45mm loadable cases. He, to me, is reasonable on his price for the service so for the first batch of ammo I am going to go this route.

I will still need to seat the bullets, is there a preference here in the BHW community for a seating/crimp die. A single process would be preferred but if I have to get a separate Lee FCD (.243) I will do it.

I am sure some will say they never crimp but I err on the side of caution in most things that have the potential to go Boom or Bang.

Thanks both of you for the good information and references.

BB

Any Hornady 24 cal seating die will work. The making of the brass is so simple. If you can reload a 223 you can make 6X45. I'll be using Winchester 223 for my new build.

Greg

[Deleted]

Why bother? Just need some music and in 1hr+ you have 200 or 300 depending if trimming is needed or not.
FC and Winchester brass most x1 fired cases do not need trimming for a couple of uses.
LC, PPU and most 'hard/NATO x1 brass' always does.

I use the lee very light crimp and the main reason is not to avoid bullet offset but to achieve consistent starting pressure. This is one of the often overlooked and one important aspects of consistent spreads.
I do mine with a light touch of the index finger in the press and get a lot of spreads with differences in the single digits.
Don't aim for that the first day but this is really one of the most forgiving and easy to reload affordable cartridges. Brass virtually free at the range bin.


Making 6x45 is as simple as Cosmo Kramer and Newman making sausages in that Seinfeld episode....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtdgIC4uoAo

[HuntTXhogs]

I cancelled the order of processed brass, I have the die set on the way (RCBS AR) I bought Ramshot X-terminator powder and I will load up some 62gr Varmit Grenades and 80gr Sierra Spitzers.

I bought a bag of Remington brass and some CCI magnum small rifle primers.

I bought Hornady OneShot case lube, says it drys after a minute, I figure the inside of the case neck will need a little and I don't want to have to swab nothing out.

I will be on the lookout for the range bucket trust me

BB

[GLSHOOTER]

Dec 14, 2011 15:39:15 GMT -8 HuntTXhogs said:

I cancelled the order of processed brass, I have the die set on the way (RCBS AR) I bought Ramshot X-terminator powder and I will load up some 62gr Varmit Grenades and 80gr Sierra Spitzers.

I bought a bag of Remington brass and some CCI magnum small rifle primers.

I bought Hornady OneShot case lube, says it drys after a minute, I figure the inside of the case neck will need a little and I don't want to have to swab nothing out.

I will be on the lookout for the range bucket trust me

BB

You are on your way. The most loading data out there is from Hodgdon. Also check out the Predator Master website. They have several threads on the 6X45 with a couple guys having extensive information. Steve Timm, the writer, just sent me a copy of his Handloader Magazine article he wrote years ago that gives some good information.

Greg

[Deleted]

As a general rule a starting load for .223 is safe for the 6x45 for a bullet 10gr heavier. I started like that and never had a problem.
For example, the starting load for a 62gr .223 is a good start for a 70gr in 6mm.
Then worked your way up slowly like it is mandated. Your best friends are the scale and the chrono.
I can give you a few loads but only the mild/ starting loads. I do not publish the max or close to max as I feel it is irresponsible. I cannot control what you are doing. For me COAL and mag length are fun to research but not needed by most folks. This round will give excellent and accurate both hunting and target loads w/o much effort. It is one of the most fun to shoot, and cheap.
If you want try W748 with BR primers for the lighter bullets and Varget with regular CCI primers for everything else. I feel anything slower will not do anything for you. Also those powders are very consistent in the hot and cold.
LC/nato cases are stronger later when you get familiar with how the whole thing goes. It is best to start mild with soft brass that it is easy to work with and get a nice baseline.

Cheers.
E.

[Win75]

I received my RCBS AR 6x45 die set with taper crimp seating die today. Cleaned, adjusted, and sized about a dozen cases. These work like slicing hot butter with a sharp knife.

These were $58.00 with taxes and shipping from Midway and I got them in two days. It makes me a happy camper. ;D

[Deleted]

Cannot go wrong with RCBS. Top of the line stuff. Also Midway they do a great job. Specially no delays.

[HuntTXhogs]

Received my dies as well, got the gun from the seller (bought used on AR15 dot com).

Not a good day at the range. Jams galore!

I am no expert but I think the gun is short-stroking the bolt. Here is my load receipe.

Remington PSP 80gr sitting atop 24 grains of X-Terminator powder, CCI small rifle primer, remington new brass.

and

Barnes 62gr Varmit Grenades atop 25 grains of same powder CCI small rifle primer, remington new brass.

I loaded using RCBS AR small based dies and the bullets are seated to the proper COAL in fact I had to seat the Barnes to 2.250 to fit the magazine.

I tried two different mags both AR15 mags, an LMT aluminum mag and a Pmag. Also tried two different lowers. A Palmetto State Armory lower that works on my PSA upper and an Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendal lower full length rifle A2 lower.

So I was thinking, maybe the powder is too fast burning... I want to try out another powder before having the gun looked at by a professional.

Here is a vid of what it is doing.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6PYorpfFoI

I am looking for a recommendation on a powder that is a known 100% in 6x45 loads.
Thx,

BB