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Post by pxranger on Jun 25, 2012 5:27:46 GMT -8
Anyone have load data for the 123 grain Amax for the .264 lbc using H322, or IMR 8208 xbr?
The Hornady handbook doesn't list these powders for the 123 grain bullets, and I would prefer to stick with proven load data for the AR. I am more willing to work up loads in a bolt gun, but don't have confidence in my ability to spot excess pressure in an AR.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2012 5:49:08 GMT -8
Anyone have load data for the 123 grain Amax for the .264 lbc using H322, or IMR 8208 xbr? The Hornady handbook doesn't list these powders for the 123 grain bullets, and I would prefer to stick with proven load data for the AR. I am more willing to work up loads in a bolt gun, but don't have confidence in my ability to spot excess pressure in an AR. Go to the Hodgdon web site and use the same loads listed for the Sierra 123 gr. HPBT. Max loads are listed as compressed, and are below max pressure with both 8208 and 322. A second option would be to call Hornady and ask for those specific loads with those powders. I have heard of people that have called and the rep at Hornady was very helpful. |
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Post by pxranger on Jun 25, 2012 6:01:34 GMT -8
Thanks. I have a printout of that data I was looking at earlier, are the Amax and matchking close enough in length that max charge sizes are about the same? wondering about seating depth between the two for reaching the lands.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2012 6:19:32 GMT -8
Thanks. I have a printout of that data I was looking at earlier, are the Amax and matchking close enough in length that max charge sizes are about the same? wondering about seating depth between the two for reaching the lands. You should be able to use Matchking data for a starting load with the Amax. Working up loads for an AR is the same as a bolt gun. Just watch for signs of over pressure. I am shooting 28 gr. 8208 with a Hornady 123 Amax. COL of 2.260 It shoots well in my rifle and I have no sign of pressure. |
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Post by pxranger on Feb 19, 2013 15:47:22 GMT -8
Finally loaded some of the 123 grain A-maxes, using XBR 8208 Hornady cases and 205M primers. I played around with loads from 27.5 to 28.5 grains, with seating depth from magazine length (2.260) down to 2.45 inches and could not get a group below .9 inches at 90 yards.
Factory Hornady 123 grain A-max load is grouping at around .5 inches or less. last summer I ended up using factory loads for a Hunter benchrest shoot, managed to win the 100 yard event with the factory loads.
I'll try some loads using lighter charges and see what other powders I have that might work, I had high hopes for this powder bullet combo, looks like I have a lot more work to do,
right before I lost the light, I tried a 3 shot group using a 95 grain V-max with 30 grains of XBR 8208 seated at 2.30 inches, .5 inch group.
this is the same rifle I was having trouble using 107 grain SMK's in, I basically gave up on those.
Anyone else have a suggestion to get this powder bullet combo to work? I have some CCI BR-4 primers and some CCI standard small rifle primers to try if need be. also have some H-322, H-335, and some Varget powder, but it has a bad rep in the .264 lbc. I still have over 150 of these bullets, would like to find a load that works.
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Post by Babaganoush on Apr 2, 2013 20:28:20 GMT -8
In my 22" Bull Barrel, I found the 28 grain load of 8208XBR did very well behind the 123 gr Amax's. I presently seat them at 2.245" and also give them a light crimp to avoid any displacement while they ride the feed ramps. (I don't know if this really helps, but it makes me feel better.)
The only difference between your test loads and mine appears to be the primer choice. At Rich's recommendation, I use the CCI450's.
During my initial load workup, I moved in .3 gr increments, shooting a ladder test at 200 yards. I did notice some happy spots, as well as a few blah zones. I focused on groups that exhibited minimal vertical stringing, and watched for pressure signs along the way. Groups were anywhere from 1.5 moa down to 3/8 moa. My final ladder testing was also done @ 200 yards, in .1 gr increments, from 27.5 to 28.4 grains. Even there, I saw the groups open slightly at the extremes. At 28 gr, it settled in at 0.25 moa.
What struck me the most, though, was the consistency of the results. When I crossed the same loads I had shot during the preliminary tests, the groups were nearly identical in their sizes.
The main point to stress here is, that by employing a ladder test, I succeeded it mitigating most of the environmental variables. I never shot the same load twice in a row. Instead, I went "round robin", shooting only one from each load before going back. That way, no one load had the benefit of extended lulls or suffered due to stronger winds.
This was the first load I'd developed using the above technique. Compared to any of my previous loads, it genuinely saved me a bunch of loading and range time (less than half the shots). If you haven't found your barrel's pet load, yet, I encourage you to consider working up your load in a similar fashion. It certainly served me well.
David
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Apr 3, 2013 10:01:02 GMT -8
David, That is good info. You are actually doing an incremental testing. The true ladder is shot one bullet at a time and no groups are involved. Usually shot at no less than 300 and preferably at 500 yards. I've been doing your style for years and always been happy with the results. Accurate record keeping is extremely important. That way you can recheck the god stuff and avoid the blahs.  Greg |
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Post by Babaganoush on Apr 3, 2013 16:45:57 GMT -8
Greg, I suppose that I really am shooting a modified ladder, in that I am shooting at individual aim points for each load, rather than all shots at the same aim point. That is probably because of minimum separation at 200 yards made it harder to interpret the data. That is, I understand, why 300 yards would be considered the minimum for a true ladder test. I had attempted to use sharpies to color code the bullets in order to aid in shot identification, but something about the paper quality made that impractical. (Some people make it look so easy.) I have taken to clearly marking up my test targets and then taking a digital photo. That is then saved with the range data. This helps keep my memory from improving the results of that session, as time progresses. Total rounds expended on this load, including fowlers/sighters, was 70 rounds in two sessions. |
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Apr 3, 2013 18:50:53 GMT -8
Greg, I suppose that I really am shooting a modified ladder, in that I am shooting at individual aim points for each load, rather than all shots at the same aim point. That is probably because of minimum separation at 200 yards made it harder to interpret the data. That is, I understand, why 300 yards would be considered the minimum for a true ladder test. I had attempted to use sharpies to color code the bullets in order to aid in shot identification, but something about the paper quality made that impractical. (Some people make it look so easy.) I have taken to clearly marking up my test targets and then taking a digital photo. That is then saved with the range data. This helps keep my memory from improving the results of that session, as time progresses. Total rounds expended on this load, including fowlers/sighters, was 70 rounds in two sessions. Your method is identical to mine. To much going on for my mediocre skills to shoot single rounds at 300. LOL. I use regular printer paper and the magic markers do fine on leaving colored bullet holes with it. 70 rounds will usually produce three good loads for me. Greg |
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Post by Babaganoush on Apr 3, 2013 19:39:41 GMT -8
70 rounds will usually produce three good loads for me. Hrmm... I'm shooting ten steps of 3 bullets per step per session. 3 grain span on 1st session, 1 grain span on last. 5 sighters/foulers + 30 per session, x2 = 70 Either I'm shooting more steps, or more bullets per step than you are. That might seem like overkill, but it allowed me to locate what I considered the best group at the best velocity. |
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Post by GLSHOOTER on Apr 3, 2013 20:18:35 GMT -8
70 rounds will usually produce three good loads for me. Hrmm... I'm shooting ten steps of 3 bullets per step per session. 3 grain span on 1st session, 1 grain span on last. 5 sighters/foulers + 30 per session, x2 = 70 Either I'm shooting more steps, or more bullets per step than you are. That might seem like overkill, but it allowed me to locate what I considered the best group at the best velocity. I go on the premise that most cartridges shoot best at 90-100 percent fill. I look over published data and look around for others reports. I will back off the MAX load by about 4percent shoot five. Move up to 2 percent and shoot five and finish with that powder at MAX. Every bullet is shot through a chrono. That is for regular stuff. For my wildcats it is along study of case capacity and powders used in similar cases. I do use a 0.3 grain increment on those cases with very close observation of case heads and primers along with the chrono data. Greg |
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Post by m4weave on Apr 10, 2013 8:59:28 GMT -8
Great! Appreciate you both taking the time to post it and I intend to put it to good use once my barrel & other parts show up! (12 weeks as of yesterday  -Mike |
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Post by Babaganoush on Apr 13, 2013 21:20:38 GMT -8
Great! Appreciate you both taking the time to post it and I intend to put it to good use once my barrel & other parts show up! (12 weeks as of yesterday -Mike Any news, yet, on your shipment? The improving weather must be driving you nuts! |
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Post by m4weave on Apr 14, 2013 17:51:13 GMT -8
Great! Appreciate you both taking the time to post it and I intend to put it to good use once my barrel & other parts show up! (12 weeks as of yesterday -Mike Any news, yet, on your shipment? The improving weather must be driving you nuts! Nope, but I've been busy (slowly) gathering components for loading in the meantime. Took advantage of some 123 SMK "Blems" at Midway a while back. Look loke perfect projectiles to me, save for a wee bit of tarnish on a few. -Mike |
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